What is an appliance, and what rules are a must or recommended?

[ericmark]

To my mind we have always considered an appliance as something which uses current, but what about plug and play solar, that does not use current. I know if portable (not fixed and under 18 kW or on wheels) it needs a 13A plug, but once it comes to what is law and what is recommended, the "The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 2016" for example, BS1363, BS7671, and the HSE Electrical standards and approved codes of practice, Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994, for example, working out what is a rule and what is a recommendation seems to be hard.

I have an old copy of BS7671, but that's about the installation. Look at "The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 2016" and it says "(2) These regulations do not apply to - (e) plugs and sockets outlets for domestic use;" and I start to wonder what law stops plug in solar, or any other appliance from being used?

Is it just Chinese whispers?

Even as to what is tested as part of the inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment, or part of the electrical installation condition report? What is the difference between an appliance and equipment? So if I do PAT testing where they have plug in solar, must I test it? Well I suppose I can include it in the LIM (limitation) or FIR (further investigation required) which I would need to do for a boiler, as not registered as gas safe.

I know that all electrical installations and equipment needs inspecting and testing, but it is not all done at the same time, or by the same person, and the building manager is required to ensure nothing escapes without being tester and inspected, when no building manager the owner.

But as to who tests what, that is not so cut and dried, and to read a law, one needs words defining, so what is an appliance?

 

[denso13]

To my mind we have always considered an appliance as something which uses current,

Not originally,

"appliance
1560s, "action of putting into use," from apply + -ance."

 

[jj4091]

There are also gas "appliances" but no idea who monitors their safety. Appliance engineers are supposed to, or used to have to do Pat testing after every repair. Not sure if that is what you are refering to.

 

[ericmark]

The electrics tend to be split into two areas, the installation i.e. the bits that take electric to where it is to be used. And the current using equipment or appliance, so the rules and regulations seem to be split into two, BS 7671 for the installation is far enough, but the current using equipment side seems to have no single book to go to, so we hear that for example plug and play balcony solar is not as yet permitted, but I have not found the regulations yet which says you should not use them. It could be there is no regulation, just Chinese whispers?

 

[blup]

Not originally,

"appliance
1560s, "action of putting into use," from apply + -ance."

And now as well. The appliance puts into use energy by converting it to light heat or mechanical force.

 

[ericmark]

The appliance puts into use energy by converting it to light heat or mechanical force.

Now that is interesting, so what about the reverse, what if it turns light to useable energy? Light is of course energy, but it needs converting into a form we can use, is the machine that does that considered as an appliance?

I am sure you understand the interest, I looked at the HSE, and other rules as laws, and I can't see anything which makes plugging in solar panels illegal. But all the reports are saying the law will be changed, but no one seems to be saying what law will be changed.

 

[denso13]

And now as well. The appliance puts into use energy by converting it to light heat or mechanical force.

My post was a bit tounge in cheek as Eric always pushes the original meaning of words, like boiler and plumber.

So taking the original meaning of appliance, it doesn't do that at all, it has nothing to do with anything electrical.

 

[blup]

My post was a bit tounge in cheek as Eric always pushes the original meaning of words, like boiler and plumber.

So taking the original meaning of appliance, it doesn't do that at all, it has nothing to do with anything electrical.

Noted, I haven’t been Ericked yet

 

[ericmark]

I was in this case not trying to catch people out, maybe I have been watching QI too often? And I do work with real boilers, and heating is done using latent heat as steam changes to water.

But I have been looking for the law which stops one using plug and play solar, and I have failed.

We can with G98 or G99 notices export electric.
We can with battery packs have them grid tie, and work like an uninterruptible power supply (UPS) and these can also use solar to charge them up.
And we only have to look at an EV charging plug, to see how some plug and sockets can allow power in both directions.

We can fit solar panels to walls, balconies and sheds.

The solar inverters designed for plug and play, automatically make the plug dead when unplugged, so no real danger there, the only questions are, 1) How much export will be allowed without a G98? 2) How much back feed will be allowed on a 13 amp plug? 3) Will we get paid for export? The main change seems to be, we can move the units home to home, at the moments one has to supply "Property / site postcode" so the unit is tied to one property / site postcode, and can't be simply unplugged and moved to ones new rented home.

So it seems the change will be a three tier systems rather than two tier, and up to some set figure you can export without the MPAN number which up to now has been required to get payment for export.

It says "You must notify us of the generation installation within 28 days of commissioning. " So as it stands, every 28 days it will need unplugging and plugging back in again. Well since not "installed" not even sure about that?

So the G98 does not seem to stop plug and play solar, so what does?

 

[denso13]

And I do work with real boilers, and heating is done using latent heat as steam changes to water.

Again though, apologies for side tracking things, the original meaning of boiler was a person, not a thing.

Just saying that you shouldn't take things too literally.

 

[ericmark]

That's no way to talk about the wife! And you say "It's not a tank!! It's a cistern!!" so you are just as bad. Cistern a bit over the top to flush the loo!

 

[denso13]

That's no way to talk about the wife! And you say "It's not a tank!! It's a cistern!!" so you are just as bad. Cistern View attachment 413065 a bit over the top to flush the loo!

The original Greek meaning is box or chest, not what you have shown.

Trying to use the original meaning of words will make no sense most of the time.

 

[blup]

The original Greek meaning is box or chest, not what you have shown.

Trying to use the original meaning of words will make no sense most of the time.

Except for fenestration