Heat pump installation costs

[WalksWithTurkeys]

one of the reasons why it costs more to install is the installer will already think the customer is gullible because they have chosen a heat pump so are gullible enough to pay what ever they are told .
Also people thinking they are getting 7500 off the government so still think they are saving ££££ on total installation cost

That is the obvious suspicion. I don’t see how heat pumps can replace gas boilers if they always cost ~£15,000 or more to install. Most people don’t have that sort of money.

I was one of the first to become a Heat Geek.

That would give more profit than installing a heat pump you don't seem to question that though.

Would one of you care to give a breakdown of the costs involved?

 

[denso13]

All I am doing is asking for an explanation of what heat pump installers do to justify the cost.

Why do they need to justify it? You either gets some quotes and go for the best one, or don't.

How long would it take to do the plumbing part, which can be quite involved if it say a combi being replaced?

My garage charges £450 for a service and it took about an hour. Say a hundred tops for materials, which it won't be, that's £350 an hour.

 

[denso13]

Would one of you care to give a breakdown of the costs involved?

2 plumbers at £100/hour for 2 days is the heating labour on your example.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

Why do they need to justify it? You either gets some quotes and go for the best one, or don't.

Because I am considering what to do. The government grant ends in 2027. If the price is justified, then this is a huge saving. If installers are making a killing, then prices will drop markedly over the coming years i.e. no huge installer profit, unit prices reducing as sales go up, and manufacturing improves.

How long would it take to do the plumbing part, which can be quite involved if it say a combi being replaced?

My garage charges £450 for a service and it took about an hour. Say a hundred tops for materials, which it won't be, that's £350 an hour.

You’re being overcharged. So you’re saying installers charge £350 an hour?

 

[Fred Blogs]

Short answer, don't bother if your boiler is working keep it if it isn't replace with a like for like. For sure don't go down the heat pump route, they don't work.

 

[denso13]

So you’re saying installers charge £350 an hour?

No.

If installers are making a killing, then prices will drop markedly over the coming years i.e. no huge installer profit, unit prices reducing as sales go up, and manufacturing improves.

Wait until that happens and go for it.

 

[denso13]

2 plumbers at £100/hour for 2 days is the heating labour on your example.

And taking four days is £50/hour which is cheaper than your existing guy.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

Wait until that happens and go for it.

I’m guessing that is sarcasm.

None of your posts describe the work involved. You’re convincing me that it’s best to replace the gas boiler with another when needed.

And taking four days is £50/hour which is cheaper than your existing guy.

And taking 8 days is even cheaper.

 

[denso13]

And taking 8 days is even cheaper.

Precisely, so if it does it's a bargain, not a rip off?

Get a proper quote and ask specific questions about how long it will take.

Nobody knows your set up and what is involved, it's impossible to give an informed answer otherwise.

 

[helplessowner]

I am definitely missing something here..
How can you argue that the cost is high unless/until you have had an on-site survey and a costing applicable to your situation?
An on-line quote is a guess, and that guess will probably include a wide margin to cover things they don't yet know about.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

I am definitely missing something here..
How can you argue that the cost is high unless/until you have had an on-site survey and a costing applicable to your situation?

~£12,000+ is a lot of money, hence I would like to know what it involves.

An on-line quote is a guess, and that guess will probably include a wide margin to cover things they don't yet know about.

If I ask how much it costs to install a radiator, a plumber would explain that a like for like replacement would be an hour or two of work at ~£60 per hour plus the parts. If it is a new radiator, he would explain that it would require new pipes installing. and he could give very rough price guidelines for piping on the wall surface, piping in the wall, piping under a wooden floor, and piping in the screed. Obviously an inspection on site might reveal unforeseen problems, or it might be easier than thought.

In other words it is possible to give a rough outline. What I see in this thread is evasion and some sarcasm.

Yes I am suspicious. My house had an EPC when I moved in. It was an E. The house had 70 square meters floor area, a suspended floor and uninsulated cavity walls. I recently had another one done, and it is now a C. The house now magically has 80 square meters floor area, solid screed floors and insulated cavity walls despite no work being done on floor space, floors or wall cavities. In other words, the first EPC was a sham. I also have experience of cowboy bathroom fitters, as confirmed by Trading Standards, that was 15 years ago, and I now take care when hiring trades. The trades I dealt with since have all been excellent.

 

[dilalio]

None of your posts describe the work involved.

How can anyone describe the work involved!
Each installation is unique.
With gas boilers it is much easier to put in almost any unit and range rate it down to match the heat loss of the property. (or not, in most cases).
With heat pumps, an accurate heat lost calculation needs to be carried out, then a system designed so that the Mass flow rate will suit the demands and expectations.
Oversizing a heat pump will not return the COP or SCOP that is the sole purpose of installing such a system (above comfort).
Besides all of this, it is not for you to adjuticate the work, and therefore costs, involved.
That is a matter for the tendering businesses and you are in no way forced to accept their estimate/quote.
But if you have several quotes around the same price then you know what the current market commands...

And then comes the caveat emptor of going with a firm who's quote is considerably less than the others.

 

[denso13]

In other words it is possible to give a rough outline.

Online advice gives between 2 and 5 days. I gave you an example of 2 plumbers for 4 days being £50/hour.

Seems reasonable to me.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

How can anyone describe the work involved!
Each installation is unique.

Because each installation will have work to do, and possible jobs can be listed. If someone has an existing gas boiler with radiators, there will be some essential jobs, and some optional. Perhaps 15 mm radiator piping is not enough, or maybe it is. Maybe pipes in screed are not good, maybe they are. Maybe new radiators are needed. I have an online (rough) quote which assumes one extra radiator. Obviously replacing radiators e.g. single to double panel, will add cost. And adding radiators adds cost. Obviously if there is no hot water cylinder, one must be installed, and that adds cost. But that quote made assumptions about the work involved, and currently I don’t have a clue what they are.

I’ve looked for online descriptions, and they are vague marketing speak e.g. the system is optimised to the customers’s requirements with appropriate changes made to their current heating installation. Thank goodness, I had assumed it was just bodged together according to the contractor’s mood on the day.

With gas boilers it is much easier to put in almost any unit and range rate it down to match the heat loss of the property. (or not, in most cases).
With heat pumps, an accurate heat lost calculation needs to be carried out, then a system designed so that the Mass flow rate will suit the demands and expectations.

Okay, so we have a heat loss survey and calculation to carry out. There is one (uncosted) task.

Oversizing a heat pump will not return the COP or SCOP that is the sole purpose of installing such a system (above comfort).
Besides all of this, it is not for you to adjuticate the work, and therefore costs, involved.

So the children, sorry customers, must accept whatever daddy, sorry the contractor, says.

That is a matter for the tendering businesses and you are in no way forced to accept their estimate/quote.
But if you have several quotes around the same price then you know what the current market commands...

For sure, the customer can find out the market prices, but they will not know if the prices are reasonable given the amount of work involved. If there are more customers than contractors available, then the basic rules of supply and demand apply, and the contractors will be making hay while the sun shines. I’m becoming convinced that this is a hay making scenario.

And then comes the caveat emptor of going with a firm who's quote is considerably less than the others.

The client who doesn’t have a clue what the work involves cannot decide if a quote is excessive or unduly cheap. That said, I do agree that if a quote is considerably less, it is best binned, or another quote obtained. However, the proper Heat Geek quote will cost me £250. I don’t fancy getting three such quotes, only to discover that my house would cost £20,000 with major disruption to ‘upgrade’.

When I bought my house, I got screwed over by a trade, even though I got multiple quotes. It cost me several thousand pounds. Now I educate myself beforehand.

 

[ajrtd]

Why is it wrong to ask what a job involves?

You need to have a word with yourself if you think you will find the answer to that question on here.