Heat pump installation costs

[WalksWithTurkeys]

You need to have a word with yourself if you think you will find the answer to that question on here.

I recently repainted my kitchen. I had lots of really useful help on this forum e.g. how to take down cabinets and how to remove bits of panelling between cabinets and walls.

I’m guessing those who know the answers to my questions in this thread won’t talk, and those that will talk don’t know!

 

[denso13]

I’m guessing those who know the answers to my questions in this thread won’t talk, and those that will talk don’t know!

Good grief, nobody knows what your specific circumstaces are, nobody knows what is involved.

Get a survey done and ask them what you want to know.

 

[gas112]

Think this woman maybe able to help you with the amount of information you have given

 

[dilalio]

@WalksWithTurkeys so, can you tell us how you obtained the figure you have mentioned? Online form you filled in or did you have a conversation with someone and, if so, who was that someone?

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

so, can you tell us how you obtained the figure you have mentioned? Online form you filled in or did you have a conversation with someone and, if so, who was that someone?

I got a few online quotes for my house, a 3 bed bungalow with double glazing, good loft insulation, screed floors and cavity wall insulation. 7 radiators, six double panels about 1.2 m by 600 mm, one bathroom towel. EPC grade C. To get a precise quote, I have to pay £250. That is a lot of money, which is why I want to educate myself. How do I know they don’t have online quotes that greatly underestimate the costs, and I pay £250 for nothing?

Jesus Christ, when I’ve asked on countless other subjects on this forum, I’ve had really helpful comments.

Think this woman maybe able to help you with the amount of information you have given

That applies to the Heat Pump people in this thread. See above for details. What I’ve had is a lot of woo woo. Years ago when I asked about boilers, I was told that a boiler distant from the gas point added cost, that pipe in pipe cost more and so on, lots of details. But with heat pumps we’re not allowed to ask, oh no, we have to talk to sales folk instead and just accept that the quotes given are the quotes.

 

[ericmark]

I did look, the idea was it can also cool in summer, but it seems all existing plumbing will need replacing, the bore is not big enough, and it will need all new radiators as to heat and cool they need to be fan assisted, and also needs condensate piping to take the condensate away, and outside units need planing permission, to ensure any noise does not upset the neighbours, and the £7500 grant would hardly touch the extra expense.

So a small self-contained unit just for the living room could be on the cards, but whole house was a non-starter.

I and I am sure many others heat rooms as and when required, I don't heat whole house if it's not needed. And the heat pump does not run efficient at a reduced output, well neither does the oil burner I have now, but the difference in efficiency heating two radiators or fourteen radiators is not as marked with an oil or gas boiler to with a heat pump.

Not sure on oil price now, was costing me £600 a year approx, so heat pump may be twice as efficient, although I think unlikely, so 75 now, so maximum is 25 years, but more realistic 15 years, so £300 x 15 = £4,500, it does not get anywhere near working out better.

Plus for it to work in a power cut, as my system does now, we have to add the price of huge batteries, so it becomes a non-starter.

 

[denso13]

Jesus Christ, when I’ve asked on countless other subjects on this forum, I’ve had really helpful comments.

It'll take four days which works out at £50 an hour for two plumbers, with them ending up with less as a wage, which isn't bad. The trouble is that breaking down a price just leads to more questions and more justification seeking.

 

[denso13]

Years ago when I asked about boilers, I was told that a boiler distant from the gas point added cost, that pipe in pipe cost more and so on, lots of details.

If the heat pump is in a larger house or further from the heating connection you'll pay more. Extra pipe, extra insulation costs, extra labour, larger heat pump, larger concrete base, that sort of thing.

 

[dilalio]

Jesus Christ, when I’ve asked on countless other subjects on this forum, I’ve had really helpful comments.

I'm not Jesus, but I do know what I'm talking about!
Can't verify the validity of the "helpful comments" you've had to date!

Comments = opinions = aresholes = everyone's got one! x

 

[dilalio]

In a nutshell, IMO, as a long served tradesman plumber and Gas safe engineer, who was one of the 1st 250 to complete the Heat Geek Awakening and Mastery courses, subsidised by BAIS,

It comes down to affordability!
If you are one of the pioneers who has the financial resources and commitment to the government's net zero pledge, then put your money "where your mouth is"!
If not, sit back and let the hoi poloi do their "green diligence" thing and eventually demand will balance with supply and the technology will advance.

This industry is not currently the realm of the penny-saver, despite what the marketing **** tells you.

 

[dilalio]

It'll take four days which works out at £50 an hour

My hourly rate is more than that, but I do convert it to a daily rate if it goes over 4 hrs.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

If the heat pump is in a larger house or further from the heating connection you'll pay more. Extra pipe, extra insulation costs, extra labour, larger heat pump, larger concrete base, that sort of thing.

I’ve actually learnt something concrete. The outside unit requires a concrete base. So, there is a non trivial installation cost not required for a gas boiler. The outside unit will need an electrical connection, presumably it’s own ring main, so there is another cost. I’ve seen estimates of about £500 for a new ring main, so add on a bit more to take it out to the heat pump. Obviously the radiators might not be adequate, but let’s assume they are as a starting point. Can the heat pump just connect directly to the existing 15 mm heating water circuit? There will need to be some form of pressurisation mechanism for the closed water circuit. A hot water cylinder will be needed if not already present, it’s easy to find rough costings for that. The quotes I got online assume, unless i am mistaken, adequate insulation. And obviously a bigger house needs a bigger heat pump.

In a nutshell, IMO, as a long served tradesman plumber and Gas safe engineer, who was one of the 1st 250 to complete the Heat Geek Awakening and Mastery courses, subsidised by BAIS,

It comes down to affordability!
If you are one of the pioneers who has the financial resources and commitment to the government's net zero pledge, then put your money "where your mouth is"!
If not, sit back and let the hoi poloi do their "green diligence" thing and eventually demand will balance with supply and the technology will advance.

This industry is not currently the realm of the penny-saver, despite what the marketing **** tells you.

That was my suspicion. The government and civil service in particular lack commercial experience, and regularly let industry walk over them. You just have to look at huge projects that either failed or hugely overran costwise. I worked in companies that employed shiny suited spivs to sell projects to the civil service. They made promises they could not keep which is why they often failed. Anyway, the point of this rant is that politicians want to achieve net zero, and so they throw public money at private companies hoping that they will create an industry and prices will come down. At £12,000 before the grant for a modest 3 bed house, the heat pump just will not take off. The government can’t continue to throw £7,500 subsidies of public money at homeowners. At present we have about 50,000 a year, so 100 years to reach 5 million. Installing in new builds, which is now obligatory, makes sense.

They had expensive schemes to encourage solar cell use, but in the end it was cheap imported cells from China that caused the market to surge, and now they are seen as an investment so it is perhaps questionable if they should have spent so much of our money subsidising solar when it would take off anyway. Similarly, should they be subsidising home heat pump installs?

I’ve ordered a brand new EV because I get a £3,750 discount from His Maj’s government. That is £3,750 in my pocket from you so I can buy a nice car. Let me just say thank you for being generous. I came to the conclusion that an EV is now cost effective if you charge always or mostly at home. I considered solar cells, but the payback for a home install is too long for me, even though cells have come down massively in price. I prefer the stockmarket. They are though not a bad investment for risk averse homeowners.

I’m not looking to penny pinch, but there are questions with something like a heat pump. For example, will they remain expensive, or drop in price? I suspect it is currently a seller’s market and prices are high. And to attract people to go on training courses at their own expense, you need a financial carrot. So a nice profitable heat pump install trade is a good carrot to jump start the market, even though much of the work is just standard plumbing and electrics.

I would prefer an air to air heat pump, but the subsidy is only £2,500.

 

[dilalio]

I’ve actually learnt something concrete. The outside unit requires a concrete base. So, there is a non trivial installation cost not required for a gas boiler. The outside unit will need an electrical connection, presumably it’s own ring main, so there is another cost. I’ve seen estimates of about £500 for a new ring main, so add on a bit more to take it out to the heat pump. Obviously the radiators might not be adequate, but let’s assume they are as a starting point. Can the heat pump just connect directly to the existing 15 mm heating water circuit? There will need to be some form of pressurisation mechanism for the closed water circuit. A hot water cylinder will be needed if not already present, it’s easy to find rough costings for that. The quotes I got online assume, unless i am mistaken, adequate insulation. And obviously a bigger house needs a bigger heat pump.


That was my suspicion. The government and civil service in particular lack commercial experience, and regularly let industry walk over them. You just have to look at huge projects that either failed or hugely overran costwise. I worked in companies that employed shiny suited spivs to sell projects to the civil service. They made promises they could not keep which is why they often failed. Anyway, the point of this rant is that politicians want to achieve net zero, and so they throw public money at private companies hoping that they will create an industry and prices will come down. At £12,000 before the grant for a modest 3 bed house, the heat pump just will not take off. The government can’t continue to throw £7,500 subsidies of public money at homeowners. At present we have about 50,000 a year, so 100 years to reach 5 million. Installing in new builds, which is now obligatory, makes sense.

They had expensive schemes to encourage solar cell use, but in the end it was cheap imported cells from China that caused the market to surge, and now they are seen as an investment so it is perhaps questionable if they should have spent so much of our money subsidising solar when it would take off anyway. Similarly, should they be subsidising home heat pump installs?

I’ve ordered a brand new EV because I get a £3,750 discount from His Maj’s government. That is £3,750 in my pocket from you so I can buy a nice car. Let me just say thank you for being generous. I came to the conclusion that an EV is now cost effective if you charge always or mostly at home. I considered solar cells, but the payback for a home install is too long for me, even though cells have come down massively in price. I prefer the stockmarket. They are though not a bad investment for risk averse homeowners.

I’m not looking to penny pinch, but there are questions with something like a heat pump. For example, will they remain expensive, or drop in price? I suspect it is currently a seller’s market and prices are high. And to attract people to go on training courses at their own expense, you need a financial carrot. So a nice profitable heat pump install trade is a good carrot to jump start the market, even though much of the work is just standard plumbing and electrics.

I would prefer an air to air heat pump, but the subsidy is only £2,500.

Didn't read all your post yet, but I will.
Again, in a nutshell, know who you're listening to.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

Didn't read all your post yet, but I will.
Again, in a nutshell, know who you're listening to.

Again, in a nutshell, the issue is lack of details. I built my greenhouse on a brick wall supported by a concrete foundation. A contractor would cost that easily. If I wanted a gas boiler and new radiators installed in a bungalow, it’s pretty obvious what the parts are: install boiler on wall, connect to gas with pipes, connect to electric via new circuit, connect to water supply, install thermostat, install pipes in loft, install radiators on walls, connect radiators to water supply via pipes under floor or in screed or in walls. Maybe I’ve missed stuff, but those are key tasks.