Boiler Madness

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HELP

Conventional glow worm boiler has been condemmed & disconnected. Have had 3 engineers round quoting for replacements and for combi's also. Only downside I can see to combi is lower water pressure. Quotes are around £2-2400 for either option. 2 engineers said a combi is better for the house long-term

Idea of combi and losing storage tank is appealing but would appreciate your thoughts.

House - 1978 4 bed det with 8/9 rads. 2 adults and 2 young kids. Electric shower.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Gazza
 
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well, combi's are ok but when they break down you tend to lose everything, they require a really clean heating system, however you do mention an electric shower, that is always a good idea to have one

Personally am not a massive combi fan, you will probably need a lot bigger gas pipe, combi's need a lot more gas to give you instant hot water. You haven't said if your system is fully pump or gravity but I am guessing gravity.

Do you require a lot of baths? or are you using the shower?

A system upgrade power flush and open vent boiler is quiet a good idea, open vented boilers hardly have anything inside them and most of the system controls can be got at very short notice

Others may say go for the combi :D
 
If you don't have any issues with your current setup then it probably isn't worth changing to a combi. There's extra work involved rerouting pipework and possibly gas too, and this feeds into the extra cost. If you really want to get rid of the tank and are aware of the pros and cons of combi boilers then go for it. To do a proper job of switching from a system boiler to a combi boiler, your quotes don't sounds too bad. There's a big difference depending on what part of the country you're in. I would have extepected a like for like replacement to be quite a bit cheaper, but then they might be quoting for a lot of upgrades for like a fully pumped system, TRVs, etc.

Only downside I can see to combi is lower water pressure.
Not really. Combis provide excellent water pressure, as high as you want really. The downside is that they can only heat the water so fast and so can only provide hot water at a certain flow rate. Increase the flow rate too much, for example with a power shower going full blast, and the temperature will drop because the boiler simply isn't powerful enough to instantly heat 20l/min to 40C. Get a bigger boiler and it will be able to heat a faster flow rate to the temperature you need. In practice, most combis that people put in will provide for a single (non-power) shower with nobody else running hot water at the same time, or fill a bath in a few minutes. They can also take slightly longer for hot water to start coming out of the tap, but in practice with modern boilers and warm-start functions this is mostly controlled by the length of pipe from the boiler or tank. Because combi boilers are nearly always more powerful than you would need just for space heating and gradually refilling a tank, and of course because combis are considerably more complicated, that can add cost.

Thus plus side of combis is that you are only heating the water that you actually need to use. This can be a big advantage for some people, but perhaps not for a family of four. Maintaining a tank of hot water inevitably means some heat lost but it can often be useful for keeping an airing cupboard warm, and if it is inside a house the "lost" heat is still useful at most times of the year. Another plus is that you never run out of hot water when the tank is empty. You can literally run hot water forever, although the water will only come out at typically 10l-15l per minute. Handy if you like taking massively full baths, or if a whole series of people like to take showers one after the other, but you should already know if this is a problem for you. A larger tank is always possible.

they require a really clean heating system
Huh? This is hardly an issue specific to combi boilers. You may be assuming that recent trends towards paper-thin heat exchangers and issues with touchy condensing boilers somehow just apply to combi boilers, but combis have successfully been running sludged up systems for decades.
 
I completely disagree with the last part of your statement, modern combi's require the system to be a lot cleaner than say an open vented boiler does, whilst you would need to powerflush for either, the combi will always be more susceptible to damage from a dirty system
 
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Your wrong mate, Combi's have DHW Heat Exchangers which have a lot smaller waterways than a main heat ex.

Therefore they block easier, so a cleaner system IS more important on a combi than on a system boiler or an open vent boiler. But I agree its important to have a clean system no matter what boiler you have.
 
am saying that a combi requires a cleaner system than an open vented boiler because of the plate to plate, looks like we both agree on the same thing, maybe i didn't put it very clearly. :oops: :oops:
 
I Meant ianniann was wrong not your good self sir! :LOL:

been to loads of combis on sludged up systems with plates blocked on the primary side, some only a year old. To the OP:

If you go down the combi route, have some kind of system filter like a magnaclean or spirovent
 
thanks for the thoughts. Yes it is gravity fed - and forgot to say that I have had a quote to replace my current conventional boiler and system flush for ~£1650. One worry in keeping a conventional boiler is the potential for future problems with my airing cupboard tank or water storage tank.

One engineer said a combi would be the best for the house in the 'long-term' but I am not 100% convinced - there seems to be no clear winner for my current housing needs! I like the idea of no tank/loft tank but I am beginning to think that if my current conventional system works to our satisfaction, then perhaps a simple replacement would be a) easier, b) cheaper and c) the best (practical) solution.
 
Do you think the plate heat exchangers are reliable enough on a system that is properly cleaned to start out? Or do the manufacturers have to step and either specify magnacleans or sort out their plate designs?

I still think you need to pick the system that suits your needs. Too many people out there seem stuck on the idea that one or the other is better, instead of accepting that they're different. More than anything else, you need a good reason to change if you've already got a setup that works for you. Especially if it's going to cost you an extra thousand quid?
 
One worry in keeping a conventional boiler is the potential for future problems with my airing cupboard tank or water storage tank.
.

Not much to go wrong really. hot water cylinders last for decades, and aren't hugely expensive to replace when they do eventually fail.

The only thing to go wrong with roof tanks, is a new float valve occasionally. These cost a few quid.

If your present system works for you, then stay with it.
 
Thanks for all your comments and help. I have just spoken to the engineer and am going to stick with a like-for-like replacement and NOT a Combi.

He is going to install a baxi solo 24. I did ask about worcester/valant? because I had heard these were good high-end brands and he said he would do one of those if I wanted but that the baxi was a very sound and reliable make and it was a bit cheaper also (my gut feeling is that he is an honest john which fills me with confidence also). Feel free to comment on the boiler choice but I won't be changing my mind now. Head is about to explode having had to make these decisions.

Gazza
 
HaHa not much point on commenting is there then?? Good Luck hope it goes well for you
 

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