Surface water drainage blocked off property

Lucasdemoley · 19 May 2020

Hey, hoping someone can shed some light on this issue.

The rain water gullies from the roof at the front of my property are 100% blocked with soil. My neighbours are the same and I think their pipes feed into mine.

After a hell of a lot of digging (I'm also doing a driveway), I found that the old clay pipe leaves my property into the road. The pipe was completely full of soil at this point and I have cleared this to about 4m from my property (using a drain cleaner on pressure washed) but I'm now hitting something solid - I think this may be a T junction in the road.

I am the last house on the road, and the land slops from the street onto the adjacent land/ common land lane. I've checked all the gullies, manholes etc and my pipe doesn't feed into any of them, unless there is a connection under the road without a manhole.

There is a culvert outlet down the common lane, maybe 50m from my property, but the pipe size is maybe 10 inches.

I've spoken to Welsh Water (I'm in Swansea) and they say they are not responsible for the drain - thinking it may be a soakaway on my property (which I thought too until i uncovered the pipe leaving my property).

So question, would this be something that the council or highway authority is responsible for, or as its surface water drainage, possibly connecting to a culvert, would it be my responsibility to sort the drainage in the road?

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

KenGMac · 19 May 2020

I would have thought that if as you say the drain passes from your property on to and under an "Adopted" / maintained "public road, or Footpath 2then the local water authority should then take over?

OK I am not a specialist in this area, just attempting to get some common sense as to who owns what and where.

I am sure that the local water company would jump all over you if you decided to excavate a drain on a public road / footpath / /carriageway?

Suggest you go back to W/W and provide them with your factual evidence of where the drain leaves your property?

Ken.

Lucasdemoley · 19 May 2020

Cheers. It does go into a public maintained road, but seems as it doesn't run into a sewer it isn't W/W responsibility. I assume possibly the local water authority could be the council, or am I just mistaken.

jj4091 · 20 May 2020

I don't see how you can be responsible for all your neighbours surface water run off just because you are last in the line. It must be either a shared responsibility or more likely county council if it is not water company. Have you tried asking your house insurers for advice.

Johnny Allround · 20 May 2020

What date was your house built. You might come under section 24 ?

Lucasdemoley · 20 May 2020

Not keen on going down insurance route. I've already made two claims (a lost engagement ring and a flood from a fish tank caused £6k damage) and feel its something I can resolve. In hindsight I probably should have contacted them as we have some small signs of subsidence but I've done so much external works now it would be a complete mish-mash to get them involved.

I think the house was built 1930's, however first date in my deeds is 1921 which I assume is when the land was purchased by the council for the council house development.

Johnny Allround · 20 May 2020

Good morning Lucas, can you show me a photo of the neighbours roofline at the front and back were it’s connected to you. If you can send a photo of the down pipe that takes your neighbours rainwater and the gully it drops into please. Properties built prior to October 1937 are subject to section 24 sewage law that states if a property takes a neighbours foul or waste water as soon as it hits the drainage system it becomes a public drain and is the responsibility of the water company. This is the law in England I will check for Wales.

Johnny Allround · 20 May 2020

Hi Lucas, you might be in luck. See attached, normally properties at the end of the drainage run are public drainage and are the responsibility of the water company.

Lucasdemoley · 20 May 2020

Johnny Allround said:
Good morning Lucas, can you show me a photo of the neighbours roofline at the front and back were it’s connected to you. If you can send a photo of the down pipe that takes your neighbours rainwater and the gully it drops into please. Properties built prior to October 1937 are subject to section 24 sewage law that states if a property takes a neighbours foul or waste water as soon as it hits the drainage system it becomes a public drain and is the responsibility of the water company. This is the law in England I will check for Wales.

Hi Johnny,

Pictures attached. So the downpipe picks up roof water from both properties at the front. (the rear seems to feed into the foul drainage). Where you can see I've dug the trench and it kinks, there is a Y connection, so this gully feeds into a drain that originates from my neighbors property. It then pics up a feed from another of my gullys, and leaves my property as per the photo.

In the overhead picture, my house is the last one on the right. There is an elevation drop of about 1m across the width of my property with my property being lower than the next door. I believe the houses on the corner feed into other drainage.

Just to clarify, the drain doesn't connect into a sewer or a 'known' pipe. This seems to make a difference for the latest 2011 (i think) adoption rules, but not sure about the section 24 ones.

Thanks.

Johnny Allround · 20 May 2020

Hi mate, does your drainage run into the main on plas rd. I have done a diagram from the pics and info so if I’m seeing it right it runs like this. See attached. Pink is section 24. The gully at the front looks like a soakaway.

Lucasdemoley · 21 May 2020

Johnny Allround said:
Hi mate, does your drainage run into the main on plas rd. I have done a diagram from the pics and info so if I’m seeing it right it runs like this. See attached. Pink is section 24. The gully at the front looks like a soakaway.

Hi Johnny,

Thank you for taking the time to do a diagram, really appreciated.

I've done a crude layout below of the drainage layout. All the drainage pipes to my front garden are exposed, so I can track the pipes from gully up to the boundary.

The main foul line on Plas Road is uphill of where my pipe leaves my property. I've checked all the manholes and gullies in the road and there are no connections from my property.

I've spoken to Welsh Water again, and they indicated that if it wasn't connecting into 'their network' it most likely wouldn't be their responsibility. What I seem to read is that, if it was installed before 1937, where it becomes combined with the neighbors, it becomes the 'authorities' responsibility even if it doesn't connect into their network and its only surface water. I am not sure however if, as it isn't connected into the 'network', responsibility may actually have been passed to the highway authorities or local council - this is what the lady indicated.

Thanks for your help with this.

Johnny Allround · 21 May 2020

So all the foul runs back towards Tyrisha rd from yours at the rear? I would put some fooddye into your toilet and flush it to see which way it runs. Have you access to an inspection manhole to check?

HERTS P&D · 21 May 2020

Buy 1 on these and put it in the toilet:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/monument...VCLDtCh0hkgk3EAQYASABEgJg8vD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Andy

Ian H · 21 May 2020

Did the water run away after you jetted it? If it did you could dye test and check the culvert.

I can’t imagine a soakaway beyond your boundary so I would get back onto Welsh Water too.

Lucasdemoley · 22 May 2020

Johnny Allround said:
So all the foul runs back towards Tyrisha rd from yours at the rear? I would put some fooddye into your toilet and flush it to see which way it runs. Have you access to an inspection manhole to check?

100% is not a foul waste connection. The pipe is full of soil, both at the 3 gullies on my property, but also where I have broken into it, including by the road. My neighbours gullies are also all blocked with soil, but we both have free-slowing foul water at the rear of the properties.

The front pipes are 100% just surface water, which have zero flow.

I'll drop the council a note and see if its something they pick up under their responsibility.

CHeers.

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Surface water drainage blocked off property

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