Zion and the Art of Armageddon

No, you asked why I wasn't 'joining in with protests against his leadership in Israel'. I don't live in Israel.

I've never sided with Israel's conduct in the West Bank, you're being sloppy with your accusations.

I do 100% support Israel's efforts in Gaza to destroy Hamas, perhaps it's time to remind you why Israel are in Gaza in the first place, October 7th, remember that.
Check out the number of extrajudicial killings committed by Israel, in the West Bank alone.

Israel’s alleged undercover killings in occupied West Bank hospital may amount to extrajudicial killings and war crimes: UN experts​


Extrajudicial killings are nothing new in Israel’s nearly forty-year-old occupation of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, together constituting the Occupied Palestinian Territories

Israeli forces launched a three-day offensive on the occupied Gaza Strip in August during which they committed apparent war crimes.

Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, including militants and civilians, had been killed by Israeli forces, according to the United Nations, more than double last year’s toll from the same period. At least 19 were children — including Omar, who was fatally shot during the raid in Jenin.

Unlawful targeted killings in West Bank​


And many, many more.
 
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destroy Hamas
Who offered a peace deal. Staged hostage release for each 6 weeks of cease fire eventually ending in a permanent one. The 6 may have been 4 etc so main thing is the general idea. The Israeli sticking point mentioned was the permanent aspect. Strange as the external players keep mentioning that intent - even if the current short one that is being ignored occurred.
 
Who offered a peace deal. Staged hostage release for each 6 weeks of cease fire eventually ending in a permanent one. The 6 may have been 4 etc so main thing is the general idea. The Israeli sticking point mentioned was the permanent aspect. Strange as the external players keep mentioning that intent - even if the current short one that is being ignored occurred.

Hamas are also intent on destroying the Palestinian Authority, how does that figure in a peace deal?. There's no way forward without a unified Palestinian government, Hamas won't allow that to happen.
Did Hamas ever come up with a figure of how many hostages are still alive, bit of ducking and diving going on there John. I think if Sinwar was taken out progress could be made, quickly.

 
Palestinian Authority
Who no ordinary Palestinian is keen on This is why no elections have been allowed to be held in the West Bank for years.
The main external power wants this group with a small change to run the lot when it's all over. To my mind along with other factors this is a clearish indication of where things are heading.
 
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The IDF hit the aid workers three times with precision munitions in three different locations as they tried to evacuate their wounded colleagues.

The IDF might have made a mistake in choosing them as a target, but the strikes themselves were as deliberate as they get.
The IDF are now no better than the hamas terrorists...

Because they are now raining down terror on those who choose to help the innocent victims of this senseless war!
 
Who no ordinary Palestinian is keen on This is why no elections have been allowed to be held in the West Bank for years.
The main external power wants this group with a small change to run the lot when it's all over. To my mind along with other factors this is a clearish indication of where things are heading.

Complete overhaul required then, that won't be easy.
 
The IDF are now no better than the hamas terrorists...

Because they are now raining down terror on those who choose to help the innocent victims of this senseless war!

In war, mistakes happen, accidents happen, it's happened in every conflict that's ever been, and it's tragic.

October 7th was neither a mistake nor accident. It was a pre planned strike against innocent civilians and children that took months of planning, financed by Iran who are sworn to destroy Israel.
 
Children account for more than one in three of the more than 32,000 people killed in Israel’s months-long assault on Gaza, according to the Palestinian health ministry. Tens of thousands more young people have suffered severe injuries, including amputations. Nine doctors gave the Guardian accounts of working in Gaza hospitals this year, all but one of them foreign volunteers. Their common assessment was that most of the dead and wounded children they treated were hit by shrapnel or burned during Israel’s extensive bombardment of residential neighbourhoods, in some cases wiping out entire families. Others were killed or injured by collapsing buildings with still more missing under the rubble.

But doctors also reported treating a steady stream of children, elderly people and others who were clearly not combatants with single bullet wounds to the head or chest. Some of the physicians said that the types and locations of the wounds, and accounts of Palestinians who brought children to the hospital, led them to believe the victims were directly targeted by Israeli troops. Eyewitness accounts and video recordings appear to back up claims that Israeli soldiers have fired on civilians, including children, outside of combat with Hamas or other armed groups. In some cases, witnesses describe coming under fire while waving white flags. Haaretz reported on Saturday that Israel routinely fires on civilians in areas its military has declared a “combat zone”.

Although doctors were shocked at the number of child victims, they said they believed the shootings were part of a broader pattern of targeting Palestinian civilians, including elderly people. “The vast majority of people we saw were not combatants,” said Ahmad. “There was an elderly woman who was on the back of a donkey cart when she was shot. The bullet lodged in her spine and she was paralysed from the waist down and also her lung collapsed. She was somewhere between 60 and 70 years old.”

The groups say it is extremely difficult at this stage to quantify the scale of such shootings in Gaza, not least because their own staff are often displaced and under attack. But Miranda Cleland of Defense for Children International Palestine said that over the years there had been a “clear pattern of Israeli forces targeting Palestinian children with deadly force in situations where the children posed no threat to soldiers”. “In the occupied West Bank, Israeli soldiers routinely shoot children in the head, chest or abdomen, all areas from which a child will quickly bleed out if they aren’t killed instantly. Many of these children are shot by Israeli forces from great distances, sometimes upwards of 500ft, which is something only a trained military sniper would be capable of,” she said.

One former Israeli army sniper, who did not want to be named, told the Guardian that the IDF’s open-fire regulations were so broad that a soldier has extensive leeway to shoot at anyone once an area is declared a combat zone. “The problem is the regulations that enable soldiers who just want to shoot Palestinians. In my experience, most soldiers who pull a trigger only want to kill those who should be killed but there are those who regard all the Arabs as the enemy and find any reason to shoot or no reason at all,” he said, adding that a system of impunity protects such soldiers.

“Even if they are outside the regulations, the system will protect them. The army will cover up. The other soldiers in the unit will not object or they will celebrate another dead Arab. There’s no accountability so even the loosest regulations have no real meaning.”

The Israeli human rights group B’Tselem has described the IDF’s open-fire regulations as “no more than a semblance of legality” in part because they are “repeatedly violated”. “Other than a handful of cases, usually involving low-ranking soldiers, no one has been put on trial for harming Palestinians,” the group said.

“This is not a normal war. The war in Ukraine has killed 500 kids in two years and the war in Gaza has killed over 10,000 in less than five months. We have seen wars before but this is something that is a dark stain on our shared humanity.”
 
In war, mistakes happen, accidents happen, it's happened in every conflict that's ever been, and it's tragic.

October 7th was neither a mistake nor accident. It was a pre planned strike against innocent civilians and children that took months of planning, financed by Iran who are sworn to destroy Israel.
You are an apologist for a rogue state!

There are elements in the Israeli ruling system who are as bad as Hamas...

Some have openly stated they want to expel the Palestinians from their land...

Israel also just assassinated people in a piece of foreign/protected soil in a third country...

Oh and btw Israel apparently helped fund Hamas in the past to destabilise the Palestinian Authority...

I guess they learned nothing from the west funding the mujahideen...

How did that work out? :rolleyes:
 
months of planning, financed by Iran who are sworn to destroy Israel.
One aspects of planning does seem to be subtle but no one knows who came up with it. It doesn't take months to come up with an idea and the basic plan was pretty simple. Money - HAMAS is a wealthy outfit.

The basic plan. Drop explosives on the CCTV towers using drones. Bridge the "fence" in several places. Go in and take hostages. Even paragliders were used. They managed to over run an IDF base and had a lot lower losses than expected. Then comes a sort of 2nd wave. Any old lot went through the breaches. Looting and civilians taking hostages. Even food. Israel. Send the gun ships out and hit anything that moves. Probably killing a number of hostages.

Maybe AlJ did what they said, looked at loads of footage and broadcast examples as part of an investigation. Or maybe they were very selective which I doubt. The interesting part came when they looked at damage to Israeli buildings. They know what weapons HAMAS were carrying and up pops another question could these explain the images shown or was it tanks etc.

The US has warned Israel not to over react in the past and also it seems reached a no more point a while ago and it all stopped. Seems lots this time aren't so concerned this time but news is getting out.

Another factor that applies to Palestinian groups. They are split. The political side and their armed forces. Politicians have to be flexible, aims change, I don't think any of the current main groups think it's possible to wipe out Israel. That started with the PLO. ;) Maybe Corbyn helped that on it's way. Talks invariably end situations to some extent.

From the river to the sea. Both sides use it. The other - step over the water and enter the promised land - ;) or something like that.

Israeli variation on a propaganda machine
Aimed at all sorts but also this group
 
Another factor that is cropping up and rather Corbyn related. Simple explanation
Actual letter - rather long

Gov's seem to be using the IHRA definitions. That would explain some aspects of our own gov's reactions to demo's.
 
The deaths of three UK aid workers causes more false angst amongst UK politicians than the over 30,000 deaths of Palestinians...

Which says a lot about the attitude of the UK government as regards the relative value of human life depending on nationality!
 
OK missed the rape, sexual torture of 1200 Jews then and the taking of 200+ hostages? Selective memory or is it because they are Jewish.
 
OK missed the rape, sexual torture of 1200 Jews then and the taking of 200+ hostages? Selective memory or is it because they are Jewish.
Show me where I haven't condemned the actions of hamas...

Or have you missed that given that you appear to have a selective memory as to the slaughter of innocent Palestinians...

Those who take one side or the other are part of the problem...

Because unless both side's issues are addressed, then the violence will be endless...

But fanatics (or biased people ;)) will continue to call for a 'victory' for one side only...

A totally stupid argument!
 
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