Lifting the corporate veil

Brigadier · Tuesday at 4:10 PM

motorbiking said:
Humans error, equipment fails, buildings catch fire, competitors move in, unforeseen events occur, suppliers let you down, your business forecasts are wrong, customers can’t pay etc etc. There are 100s of reasons why honest people fail.

To which your response is "Shoite happens". OK.

So why the objection to dishonest people who "fail" (the company and their customers, while personally profiting) from similarly ending up potless?

morqthana · Tuesday at 5:18 PM

motorbiking said:
Humans error, equipment fails, buildings catch fire, competitors move in, unforeseen events occur, suppliers let you down, your business forecasts are wrong, customers can’t pay etc etc. There are 100s of reasons why honest people fail.

But this isn't about "honest people failing".

The Department of Health and Social Care sued PPE Medpro over claims the medical gowns it supplied did not comply with relevant healthcare standards.

The High Court ruled Medpro failed to prove whether or not its surgical gowns, which were to be used by NHS workers, had undergone a validated sterilisation process.

noseall · Tuesday at 7:06 PM

motorbiking said:
Humans error, equipment fails, buildings catch fire, competitors move in, unforeseen events occur, suppliers let you down, your business forecasts are wrong, customers can’t pay etc etc. There are 100s of reasons why honest people fail.

...theft, dishonesty, greed. Paying shareholders big dividends when the company is bankrupt...

blup · Tuesday at 7:20 PM

motorbiking said:
Happens every day. 100s of builders, manufacturers, installers etc. phoenix their firms when they can’t finish a fixed priced job within the costs they thought. They normally create NewCo before liquidating OldCo to avoid being barred.

Why do banks take personal guarantees if limited liability is crucial to business confidence?

morqthana · Wednesday at 12:58 AM

blup said:
Why do banks take personal guarantees if limited liability is crucial to business confidence?

Because they have the money. And they don't want to lose it to limited liability.

blup · Wednesday at 6:55 AM

Perhaps the answer in the Medipro situation is to make liability personal if ultimate true ownership of a company is hidden.

Ivor Windybottom · Wednesday at 11:26 AM

The people making the decisions at UK government should have assessed the company's situation and credit-worthiness. They could also have stipulated staged payments, personal guarantees, escrow payments or anything they liked.

But instead they just lobbed all our money at some outfit that had been set up by a politician's pal.

The attention should focus on the decision-makers in government, and their possible links with this company. This concept of directors becoming liable is just a smokescreen to deflect attention away from the real blame.

morqthana · Wednesday at 4:06 PM

Ivor Windybottom said:
But instead they just lobbed all our money at some outfit that had been set up by a politician's pal.

Hang on a sec while I fix that for you..

But instead they just lobbed all our money at some outfit that had been set up by their pals.

noseall · Wednesday at 4:53 PM

Ivor Windybottom said:
The people making the decisions at UK government should have assessed the company's situation and credit-worthiness. They could also have stipulated staged payments, personal guarantees, escrow payments or anything they liked.

But instead they just lobbed all our money at some outfit that had been set up by a politician's pal.

The attention should focus on the decision-makers in government, and their possible links with this company. This concept of directors becoming liable is just a smokescreen to deflect attention away from the real blame.

The government at the time were in charge of vetting and the tender process which was waived or ignored in favour of haste. The Tory scroungers saw this and it was likes sharks sniffing blood. Pub landlords, mates, husbands of baronesses raced to companies house as fast as they could, to set up their scrounger accounts. They could not believe their luck.

Regular suppliers of PPE were ignored in favour of this shower of shít.

blup · Wednesday at 8:50 PM

Ivor Windybottom said:
The people making the decisions at UK government should have assessed the company's situation and credit-worthiness. They could also have stipulated staged payments, personal guarantees, escrow payments or anything they liked.

But instead they just lobbed all our money at some outfit that had been set up by a politician's pal.

The attention should focus on the decision-makers in government, and their possible links with this company. This concept of directors becoming liable is just a smokescreen to deflect attention away from the real blame.

The civil servants followed the procedures but were threatened with being reported to the politicians through Moaner’s connections. Eventually went through despite falling the tests. A good example of the honesty and professionalism of civil servants. The “they” you refer to were the Torey boys and girls.

motorbiking · Wednesday at 10:38 PM

noseall said:
...theft, dishonesty, greed. Paying shareholders big dividends when the company is bankrupt...

That would be illegal

motorbiking · Wednesday at 10:39 PM

blup said:
Perhaps the answer in the Medipro situation is to make liability personal if ultimate true ownership of a company is hidden.

Or just get decent lawyers to draft the supply contract.

Ivor Windybottom · Thursday at 9:32 AM

The point is that they should be investigating the politicians who made the decisions that allowed our money to be given away to them and their fraudster pals.

Politicians now want to blame the Ltd Co system, as that nicely deflects the attention from them. Sadly many have taken the bait and are concentrating their efforts debating this.

The UK government paid the money, not the dodgy directors. Point the blame at the source of these decisions, not where it ended up.

They basically promised free money to anyone. The market responded, by setting up free money receiving vehicles.

morqthana · Thursday at 12:00 PM

Ivor Windybottom said:
The UK government paid the money, not the dodgy directors. Point the blame at the source of these decisions, not where it ended up.

That too.

But let's not ignore the fact that if A lies to B, A is the one with responsibility for the lie.

Lifting the corporate veil

Similar threads