Accenta Mini Gen4 + Odyssey 3 = tamper ?

[tom_c]

Hi,

I have an Accenta Mini Gen4 panel and an Odyssey 3 bell box.

I have connected it all up but the panel shows a tamper fault. I've tested the zone tamper loop and keypad tamper loop which are fine, so I think the only tamper left is the bell box. Disconnecting the tamper from the bell box and putting in a link between the tamper input and 0v allows the system to reset and be used normally.
The bell box is in its "normal mode", the cover is on pushing all the tamper switches correctly (I know this as the bell box goes out of its engineer mode when all internal tampers are closed for 2 mins and it has power).

Any ideas ?

 

[saxondale]

have you metered out the cable to the ext sounder?

checked connections at both ends ?

fitted any links needed in the ext sounder?

 

[tom_c]

have you metered out the cable to the ext sounder?

Seems to obvous when you arent standing there trying to work out what to do next ! I'll get up the ladder later today and meter the output of the bell box tamper. I'll also try taking the core out of the tamper connector and putting it in the 0v one, as that should have the same effect as the link in the panel, yet should test the cable. Will even try changing to an unused core to see if that helps.

checked connections at both ends ?

Have checked the connections already (including checking I'm using the same colours at both ends of the cable !)

fitted any links needed in the ext sounder?

I dont believe there are any links needed. There is a jumper to switch between panel battery and sounder battery - but that shouldnt make any difference to the tamper. The sounder and strobe test from the panel works fine.

 

[tom_c]

OK - I've now tested the cable, and thats fine.

I've connected the tamper core to the 0v in the bell box and the system reports there is no tamper fault.

Is there a chance that a new bell box can be faulty ? ie not correctly reporting its tamper status ?

Its one of these electronic ones rather than just switches, so it doesnt appear to be as simple as a continuity between 0v and the Tamp output when the switches are closed.

The resistance between 0v and the Tamp output is around 2 Meg ohm when the tamper loop is closed (bell box knows its closed due to the change in its flashing lights).

What is a good way of testing the tamper output appart from continuity to 0v ? Could I connect a relay to between 12v and Tamp and see if that turns on/off or would the Tamp output not be powerfull enough to drive a relay ?

Any help would be most appreciated.

 

[saxondale]

OK - I've now tested the cable, and thats fine.

I've connected the tamper core to the 0v in the bell box and the system reports there is no tamper fault.

Is there a chance that a new bell box can be faulty ? ie not correctly reporting its tamper status ?

Its one of these electronic ones rather than just switches, so it doesnt appear to be as simple as a continuity between 0v and the Tamp output when the switches are closed.

The resistance between 0v and the Tamp output is around 2 Meg ohm when the tamper loop is closed (bell box knows its closed due to the change in its flashing lights).

What is a good way of testing the tamper output appart from continuity to 0v ? Could I connect a relay to between 12v and Tamp and see if that turns on/off or would the Tamp output not be powerfull enough to drive a relay ?

Any help would be most appreciated.

the correct way would be to read the voltage between 12v and return with a mutlimeter 12v is good

you sure you dont need to link a tamper feed (either by a jumper or a wire link ) in the ext sounder ?

 

[tom_c]

Hi,

The reading between 12v and Tamp is 12v (ish), however that wasn't enough for the panel to see that its a closed tamper. (Think the panel looks for continuity with 0v rather than a fixed voltage ?)

There are no jumpers inside that I could see.

I took the bell box down and had a look at how its been designed and it appears there is either a resistor or diode (small black surface mount thing) between the tamper loop and the screw terminal on the pcb.
It also gets its own feed of its tamper condition from these same two switches so at first I thought this diode/resistor was there for a reason - however now what I've done is connected the tamper return wire directly to where the tamper loop goes onto the pcb from the switches (so its a direct short to 0v when the switches are closed).

The panel now see's this as a closed tamper when it should, and an open tamper when it should - the bell box also see's the correct tamper status.

So all is now well.

Any idea what this surface mount thing was, or why it was there (small square black, no label on it, 2 pins, one connected to the tamper switches and one connected to the output terminal) My first thought was that it was a protection resistor so that if the installer shorted the cable it wouldn't fry anything - but then realised that unless both tamper switches are closed then it wouldn't be connected to anything - and even if they were closed it would only be connected to 0v !

Many thanks for the replys.

 

[saxondale]

Hi,

The reading between 12v and Tamp is 12v (ish), however that wasn't enough for the panel to see that its a closed tamper. (Think the panel looks for continuity with 0v rather than a fixed voltage ?)

There are no jumpers inside that I could see.

I took the bell box down and had a look at how its been designed and it appears there is either a resistor or diode (small black surface mount thing) between the tamper loop and the screw terminal on the pcb.
It also gets its own feed of its tamper condition from these same two switches so at first I thought this diode/resistor was there for a reason - however now what I've done is connected the tamper return wire directly to where the tamper loop goes onto the pcb from the switches (so its a direct short to 0v when the switches are closed).

The panel now see's this as a closed tamper when it should, and an open tamper when it should - the bell box also see's the correct tamper status.

So all is now well.

Any idea what this surface mount thing was, or why it was there (small square black, no label on it, 2 pins, one connected to the tamper switches and one connected to the output terminal) My first thought was that it was a protection resistor so that if the installer shorted the cable it wouldn't fry anything - but then realised that unless both tamper switches are closed then it wouldn't be connected to anything - and even if they were closed it would only be connected to 0v !

Many thanks for the replys.

glad its working - does sound strange 12v is the correct reading, was it that before you shorted the return direct to the switches ?

is there a terminal or set of pins labeled " tamp feed....."? most panels still allow you to select negative or positive tamper so without a link your always open

 

[tom_c]

was it that before you shorted the return direct to the switches ?

That 12v reading was with nothing connected to the "tamp" output (ie the reading that the bell box was actually giving out so that the panel couldn't have any effect on this value

is there a terminal or set of pins labeled " tamp feed....."? most panels still allow you to select negative or positive tamper so without a link your always open

Nope - this one is -ve tamper only by the looks of things. The bell box has its own self activate on tamper, so it would need to be much more clever to cope with both +ve and -ve tampers I think.

I found another site which confirms that this box is -ve tamper only, it states that you can connect a relay between 12v and the tamp output, and use the relay contacts to get a +ve tamper. I tried putting a relay between tamp output and +ve, however this just pulls the tamp output up to very close to 12v no matter what the tamper circuit is actually doing. I recon that this component is probably supposed to be a simple current limiting resistor to protect the internal circuitry should the cable be cut - but I think this one is probably faulty and has a resistance of 2 meg ohms - hence causing these problems. My meter probably has a resistance of much more than 2 meg ohms, therefore why the reading was at 12v between 12v and tamp outputs.