Adding 'Power' Shower into Basement Flat with Existing Combi

[ponyman]

I do love a bit of plumbing but I am out of my depth with this one

My scenario:

- Basement flat (so limited scope for vertical drops)
- in old Victorian house with 3 other flats (low pressure? dunno - seems ok but I ain't measured it yet...)
- Existing combi (Bosch/Worcester) runs CH and supplies HW to taps
- Only room for two adults in the flat

So how do I get the dogs doo-dahs shower?


I think my options are either:
- Settle for an un-pumped mixer shower off the Combi HW supply and mains cold
- Fit an Unvented Cylinder dedicated to the shower
- Go next door


I don't really understand about UV cylinders - been trying to read around tonight but I'm struggling to get the picture. Could it work for me, or is it a bit inefficient just for 2-3 showers a day? (I presume you have to keep it full of hot water all day just in case you want a shower). Are they heated electrically? Can I fill it from the Combi to get a head-start? Have I missed anything obvious and stupid?

Thanks muchly in advance for any help,
Matt

 

[oilman]

- in old Victorian house with 3 other flats.........

This really typifies todays social stupidity. Here is one of tens of thousands of similar buildings (a house), all converted to multiple dwellings,....ALL WITH A SEPERATE HEATING SYSTEM FOR EACH UNIT!!!! How clever is that in the fuel saving scheme of things? Messrs Prescott and Beckett please note!! I will accept written submissions from either of you by start of school tomorrow.

Sorry ponyman, must get off hobby-horse. An unvented cylinder is just a HW tank at high pressure (say 3.5 bar) instead of header tank pressure (perhaps up to 1 bar). I'd say it would be inefficient to use one, as you say.
They are available with immersion heaters and/or heating a coil. A shower off the combi is one solution, but forget the power-shower performance. (They should be banned anyway, as we were bombarded with how much more socially responsible it was to take a shower instead of a bath, and there's plenty of power-showers can use loads more water than a bath. (Prescott/Beckett, please comment for an extra 5 marks.)

A standard electric shower is a reasonable solution, and gives some independance of boiler breakdowns.

 

[ponyman]

....ALL WITH A SEPERATE HEATING SYSTEM FOR EACH UNIT!!!! How clever is that in the fuel saving scheme of things?

Right on oilman. Since we all own the freehold in this building I had been idly pondering about suggesting some kind of shared heating system. There was probably a really good one for the whole building until some monkey developer ripped it out in the 70s...

An unvented cylinder is just a HW tank at high pressure (say 3.5 bar) instead of header tank pressure (perhaps up to 1 bar). I'd say it would be inefficient to use one, as you say.

Inefficient because we'd be under-using it? Would you normally run your CH off it as well then, or just have it in a bigger household?

They are available with immersion heaters and/or heating a coil.

I presume that means no 'hot water on demand' - I have to have it keeping the tank warm all day long just in case, yep? How long do they take to heat up - are they as big as old-skool immersion-heater tanks?

A shower off the combi is one solution, but forget the power-shower performance.

aw. is that for definite? With piping hot combi HW and a fairly strong CW pressure, we can run a bath pretty quick with cold tap wide open and some HW mixed in. Could that mean a decent shower, or are pressure and flow rate two different things where showering's concerned?

there's plenty of power-showers can use loads more water than a bath.

I have a notion to try and re-use the shower waste water for flushing the bog, if that makes you feel any better!

A standard electric shower is a reasonable solution

I do really like the idea of redundancy if the boiler knacks, but my problem with these showers is that, in my experience, they are puny and ugly. I can't seem to find any of this sort where the gubbins (normally in a nasty white box) can be concealed behind a panel. Do they exist?

cheers oilman,
Matt

 

[oilman]

Inefficient because we'd be under-using it?

Yes

Would you normally run your CH off it as well then, or just have it in a bigger household?

You could look at thermal stores if you want to run the heating from a heat bank, but they are usually for bigger households.

How long do they take to heat up - are they as big as old-skool immersion-heater tanks?

Same time as the older tanks. (Give or take a bit).

I have a notion to try and re-use the shower waste water for flushing the bog

Great, just don't get it the wrong way round

I can't seem to find any of this sort where the gubbins (normally in a nasty white box) can be concealed behind a panel. Do they exist?

We've got a Mira Advance. I don't think it's ugly, but you could always fit an extention to the control knob and hide it behind a panel.

 

[taydo]

I have seen electric showers, where the unit fits in a cuboard and all you get in the bathroom is a flush control panel on the wall, cant remember the make sorry.

 

[ChrisR]

Triton do one for £250 or so , 10 kW. So stick with your combi which will be at least 24kW, giving you say 9 l/min. My shower goes up to 18l/min but I always use it on "low"!

Stuff the bog, cobble up a system to make your shower waste water heat the incoming main to the shower!

 

[oilman]

.........cobble up a system to make your shower waste water heat the incoming main to the shower!

THEN use it for flushing.

 

[ponyman]

Thanks ChrisR,

Triton do one for £250 or so , 10 kW. So stick with your combi which will be at least 24kW, giving you say 9 l/min.

hmmm... this seems to go against oilman's warning to 'forget power shower performance' from the combi.

Which will get closer to taking my skin off chaps? The 24kW combi or a 10kW electric box?


don't say neither - that's not funny