Adding sockets - some advice please

[TonyWarrington]

I would like to add a couple of double switched sockets shortly to a room I will be decorating. The picture shows existing sockets and proposed site of new sockets

I am trying to work out the best way to lay cable for socket A. This is a downstairs room with a concrete floor. What would be the best way to tackle this?

For socket B am I correct in assuming that it would be acceptable to take a spur from the socket in the room behind and run down the wall to normal height above floor.

Thanks in advance

Cheers
Tony

 

[plugwash]

worktop implies a kitchen to me, this raises two problems with spurring from there.

1: it will probablly be on a different circuit. While having sockets outside the kitchen on the kitchen circuit is ok regs wise it raises the issue of how to label the CU in a way that is not confusing.
2: doing such work in a kitchen is notifiable.

which directions are the sockets fed from?
if from above how easy is it to get access to lift floorboards up there?

 

[FingRinal]

The CU doesn't have to be labelled with in-depth detail. A record of exactly what, where and how can be printed off on A4 and kept in a plastic sleeve next to the CU or in a safe place. The CU should be labelled with an indication of which circuit each fuse/mcb is protecting but it's perfectly acceptable (I would say preferable) to indicate the fine details on a separate record. A laminated A4 is ideal - pref. in duplicate with the spare filed away (on paper or PC).

 

[ban-all-sheds]

2: doing such work in a kitchen is notifiable.

Not if the socket being added is not in the kitchen, surely...

which directions are the sockets fed from?
if from above how easy is it to get access to lift floorboards up there?

Exactly - how are the two existing sockets at the top of the diagram supplied?

 

[TonyWarrington]

Thanks for your very fast replies much appreciated. Sorry it seems I did not give enough info

worktop implies a kitchen to me, this raises two problems with spurring from there.
The room is actually a utility room containing washing machine sink and freezer. It is separated from the kitchen by walls, although entrance is via an open arch off the kichen

1: it will probablly be on a different circuit. While having sockets outside the kitchen on the kitchen circuit is ok regs wise it raises the issue of how to label the CU in a way that is not confusing.
The CU is a Tenby(8yrs approx). The RCD protected side controls Down and Upstairs sockets (including the ones in utility). The non RCD protected control Cooker, kitchen appliances, up and down lights and smoke detector.

2: doing such work in a kitchen is notifiable.
Would this still be the case as the room is classed as a utility and is a separate area?

which directions are the sockets fed from?
if from above how easy is it to get access to lift floorboards up there?
I believe that the sockets are fed from above. However I think that access will be difficult due to boards being 2.4m x600mm chipboard and position of upstairs walls. In addition there are no sockets directly above

The CU doesn't have to be labelled with in-depth detail. A record of exactly what, where and how can be printed off on A4 and kept in a plastic sleeve next to the CU or in a safe place. The CU should be labelled with an indication of which circuit each fuse/mcb is protecting but it's perfectly acceptable (I would say preferable) to indicate the fine details on a separate record. A laminated A4 is ideal - pref. in duplicate with the spare filed away (on paper or PC).
As mentioned above the existing sockets in the kitchen and utility room are all on the RCD protected down socket. Therefore would it need to be labelled any differently? The idea of a detailed separate record sounds very good - dare I say should be compulsory!

EDIT

2: doing such work in a kitchen is notifiable.

Not if the socket being added is not in the kitchen, surely...

which directions are the sockets fed from?
if from above how easy is it to get access to lift floorboards up there?

Exactly - how are the two existing sockets at the top of the diagram supplied?
These are supplied from above ( I believe - will need to double check). This wall separates the house from the garage

Cheers
Tony

 

[plugwash]

2: doing such work in a kitchen is notifiable.

Not if the socket being added is not in the kitchen, surely...

I would interpret it as if any part of the work required to add the sockets is in the kitchen than it's notifiable but I can see how it can be interpreted

The CU should be labelled with an indication of which circuit each fuse/mcb is protecting but it's perfectly acceptable (I would say preferable) to indicate the fine details on a separate record. A laminated A4 is ideal - pref. in duplicate with the spare filed away (on paper or PC).

Somewhat agreed, I would be satisfied if all the sockets breakers were just labeled sockets with the details elsewhere. I would not be happy if a breaker labeled kitchen sockets was covering sockets outside the kitchen.

 

[plugwash]

.
The room is actually a utility room containing washing machine sink and freezer.

I would say it is not a kitchen by the part P definition but it is a borderline case and i am not a lawyer.

The CU is a Tenby(8yrs approx). The RCD protected side controls Down and Upstairs sockets (including the ones in utility).

so no issues with stuff ending up on a confusing circuit.

assuming that socket in the utility is on the ring and not itself a spur then I agree spurring from it is a sensible move.

your other socket is more of a problem. There are safe zones horizontally from a socket but they don't extend arround corners.

One option would be to use a fused spur (so you can have more than one socket on the spur) and run cables horizontally putting an extra socket on the wall with the radiator as well.

 

[TonyWarrington]

Thanks plugwash. I appreciate that a utility (being similar to a kitchen i,e, water and elecs.) could be considered borderline. But as the intended socket will not be in this room I now feel happier about installing - after checking that socket not already a spur.

As you say the other one is a problem. Have seen the safe zones as shown on the wiki. I did consider taking a spur under the concrete floor but could not find any recommendations for this. I would also be concerned (apart from elec safety) about compromising the floor - damp proof etc.

Even if I could bring cable down from floor above I assume that it would be bad practice to use the existing sockets due to "stuff ending up on a confusing circuit".

Could you explain a little more about the fused spur option please. I may be being a little thick here but don't understand how this could be done as you would still need to come around the corner.

Cheers
Tony

 

[SeanT]

By choosing to add an additional socket on the wall with the rad on, you are in effect creating another safe zone belonging to said socket, so would be allowed to run the cable all the way around within safe zones on each wall - to do this though due to regs on spurring you'd have to either extend the ring main around to the wall with the rad on, or easier add additional overcurrent protection for the second spur (or, more correctly, the cable to the first spur) in the form of an fcu - there is another reason for not spurring off a spur but it's more complicated.

 

[TonyWarrington]

Thanks SeanT

 

[scousespark]

By choosing to add an additional socket on the wall with the rad on, you are in effect creating another safe zone belonging to said socket, so would be allowed to run the cable all the way around within safe zones on each wall - to do this though due to regs on spurring you'd have to either extend the ring main around to the wall with the rad on, or easier add additional overcurrent protection for the second spur (or, more correctly, the cable to the first spur) in the form of an fcu - there is another reason for not spurring off a spur but it's more complicated.

Why does the radiator affect safe zones sean?
Also, what is the extra reason?

 

[plugwash]

Why does the radiator affect safe zones sean?

It doesn't, we are just mentioning it to make it clear which wall we are talking about.