ADSL speed prediction checkers - what are they based on?

[c128]

I've just (today, in fact) had a new line fitted by OpenReach, currently just being used for the PostOffice telephone service - new drop-cable and all, as the old line was defunct, and certainly hadn't been used by me in the last 3 years. At some point relatively soon, I'm probably going to move to Tiscali's phone (including line rental) and broadband service at £14.99. But...

If I enter one of my neighbour's phone numbers, the BT Wholesale checker states the following:

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a line rate up to 2Mbps.
Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a potential ADSL Max broadband line rate of 7Mbps.

...if I enter my (new) number for my new line, I get the following:

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a line rate up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.
Our initial test on your line indicates that your line may not support a reliable ADSL Max broadband service, with current technology. However, an order for 250Kbps broadband speed will still be accepted, but an engineer may need to visit who will, where possible, supply the service.

Tiscali's own predictor is even worse. Neighbours:

We estimate the maximum speed your line can support is 5.5Mb.

...me:

We estimate the maximum speed your line can support is 1.5Mb.

So...quite a difference. Same exchange is listed as that of my neighbours, we're even connected to the same pole!

Is this checker just a trival check on phone number? Are phone numbers recycled, so might I be getting a guesstimate based on a number that was once further from the exchange...or do new numbers get some very base level estimate by default?

 

[Softus]

Does it really make any difference?

Aren't you going to get an ADSL service anyway?

When you do, you'll find out how fast it can connect.

 

[Northerner]

As far as I am aware the checker runs on geographical location, based upon current records for the speeds in your aea. Did you get a new number?, or keep the same phone number you had with a different service provider?? If you imported your number to BT this could be the reason it is showing different results, as the number will not be 'standard' to that area.

If you are planning on getting adsl anyway, just wait and see. If the speed is slow you can raise questions later - the speed is likely to be the same whoever you get it from, unless you get a fibre optic service from one of the cable companies.

 

[c128]

Does it really make any difference?

Well, that's what I'm trying to determine i.e. whether there's a reason behind the difference that it would be useful for me to be aware of.

Aren't you going to get an ADSL service anyway?

Possibly not - I already have Virgin Media broadband and wouldn't be considering an additional ADSL service unless the speed/price ratio looked reasonable.

When you do, you'll find out how fast it can connect.

Well...obviously but, as above, it's not a certainty that I'll sign-up. The PostOffice's phone deal is actually better than that of Virgin Media, so I was going move my phone anyway, the broadband side of things I'm not fully decided on...

 

[c128]

As far as I am aware the checker runs on geographical location, based upon current records for the speeds in your aea. Did you get a new number?, or keep the same phone number you had with a different service provider?? If you imported your number to BT this could be the reason it is showing different results, as the number will not be 'standard' to that area.

As above, it was a new number. I already have a (soon to be cancelled) Virgin Media phone line, so there was no transfer of an existing number*. I guess this begs the question as to whether BT assign new numbers that may not fit the (exact) geographical location. As above, both my new and my neighbours numbers "hit" the same exchange, just with wildly different speed predictions.

If you are planning on getting adsl anyway, just wait and see. If the speed is slow you can raise questions later - the speed is likely to be the same whoever you get it from, unless you get a fibre optic service from one of the cable companies.

It's not absolutely certain that I'm getting ADSL broadband. I already have a broadband package from Virgin Media, but it struck me that, for very little more outlay than Virgin Media's phone package, I could take Tiscali's £14.99 inclusive deal and have a second broadband source. As I work from home, this could be useful when Virgin Media have issues, and I also have the option of a load balancing router...

In general, I was just wondering what the speed predictions were based on, and whether this was purely geographical. I know it's only meant to be indicative, but if these checkers are based soley on your number identifying a location, and people move numbers so often these days, isn't it prone to a rather large error? Is a post-code check better in this case?

* This was mostly because of my lack of trust in the PostOffice/Virgin Media sorting a phone package swap without my Virgin Media broadband being cancelled along with it.

 

[Softus]

Sorry - I didn't realise that you hadn't already decided to change ADSL provider.

I don't believe that any of the checkers carry out a dynamic line test. If this is correct then the 'test result' is just an indication. The meaningful test is made by BT Wholesale after you apply to a provider.

The best reference point would be a neighbour with a good connection speed. Just sign up to a good provider; if any speed problem occurs after activation then a good provider will help you resolve it.

Bear in mind that, at busy times, contention can make a mockery of the connection speed anyway.

BTW, Tiscali is a sh*te provider. IMHO.

 

[Barsteward]

Possibly not - I already have Virgin Media broadband and wouldn't be considering an additional ADSL service unless the speed/price ratio looked reasonable.

Is that with cable or over POTS?

If cable, keep with it.

 

[c128]

It's cable.

To clarify : I'm not going to cancel my cable-based broadband with Virgin Media (at least, not for quite a while, and I'm due the free 10MB upgrade soon) it's just that I might be interested in an additional ADSL broadband package, being that the price increase from phone-only to phone+broadband (at least with the Tiscali £14.99 deal that includes line rental) isn't that great any longer.

I may just give this a punt and see... The only reason I'm looking at ADSL too is that, at the price, it would (a) provide a useful back-up to Virgin Media, as I work from home 4 days of the working week over VPN and am seriously scuppered when the broadband connection drops and (b) could improve my internet connection in general if I go with a load balancing router such as this:

http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/vigor2820.html

 

[c128]

The best reference point would be a neighbour with a good connection speed. Just sign up to a good provider; if any speed problem occurs after activation then a good provider will help you resolve it.

Thanks. I'll enqure with my neighbours - I know at least one, who's number I've tried, definitely has BT broadband, as I pick-up their wireless hub on my laptops . It'll be interesting to see what they get in reality vs. their speed prediction.

BTW, Tiscali is a sh*te provider. IMHO.

Personal bad experience? I guess it's not key for me that they're fantastic, being that their broadband service will, effectively, be my back-up, but I'd still want it to be worthwhile for the additional outlay .

 

[plugwash]

I have had a terrible experiance with tiscali. At my parents house (I don't live there most of the time now but I still visit every weekend and I still deal with thier computer issues) we used pipex for our internet connection.

when we first got pipex they were brilliant. Then they were taken over by new ownership and things started to go downhill. Then the new ownership got into financial problems and the consumer broadband division was sold to tiscali.

tiscali started a program to move the ex pipex customers from BT services to thier own LLU without telling them they were doing so. When customers called about the downtime they reffered to it as "essential maintinance".

anyway they migrated our line (or at least i'm pretty sure they did, they gave us the essential maintinace excuse). Immediately afterwards the reliability became appling and then soon after that the router we had been using refused to connect for ages (over a week). Eventually we put our old (had some issues but connection speed had not been one of them) router on. That managed to sync to the line but got a downstream speed less than 200kbps.

tech support kept promising to get an engineer to contact us, no such contact materialised

eventually we gave up and migrated to IDNET we bought a new router from them as well just in case. As soon as we were migrated we got a solid connection syncing at over 8mbps downstream.

edit: finished off a sentance, must have submitted a bit to early, addition in bold

 

[c128]

Oh dear...that doesn't sound too positive.

Now...my family have Tiscali and, aside from some initial issues with their house wiring, don't have any problems - they are local, but five miles away, on a different exchange, and can only get a maximum of 1MB anyway (genuine distance/exchange limit). They also just have broadband from Tiscali - their phone is still with BT (no combined Tiscali option at their exchange).

I guess it's whether I take the risk with Tiscali or not where I am - it only really pans out for me cost-wise if the total broadband+phone costs come in at around the £15 mark. I know Talk Talk have had their problems, but I now notice that they're roughly in the same price-area as Tiscali with ~£16 phone(inc. line rental)+broadband deal. Not unlimited though... 18 month contract too, but with a 30-day no-quibble guarantee.

 

[Softus]

BTW, Tiscali is a sh*te provider. IMHO.

Personal bad experience?

If by "personal" you mean first hand, then yes. If you mean 'was it my personal contract', then not on your life.

I have many customers who made their selection without consulting anyone. The fortunate ones don't have any problems, but those who do have problems have pretty much zero chance of getting them sorted out. But if you like spending fruitless hours on the phone to Bangalore, and think arbitraliy re-installing various bits of software is a good idea, then Tiscali, BT and TalkTalk are all excellent ISPs.

have I guess it's not key for me that they're fantastic, being that their broadband service will, effectively, be my back-up, but I'd still want it to be worthwhile for the additional outlay .

I can't think of any justification for even a backup service being with a sh*te ISP.

If you don't think my view is independent enough, then have a look at this comparison.

 

[JohnD]

In a previous life I was involved in ordering large numbers of digital lines around the UK on the BT local loop.

BT know what can be expected, just by distance from exchange and knowledge of local conditions

However, they can do a quality check on the line, and tend to run it if they get an order in for that line. It looks from your second letter like they have done a test and got a poor result. IIRC a common cause of poor speed is shared lines (not Party lines) esp in areas with oldish street cabling. If you have reactivated an old line it might be a rusty old thing that has not been maintained for some years.

If you have Virgin Cable they do some very good deals now (I am currently in dispute with them because they have been charging me more than the latest bundle offer, which is £15 phone, broadband and free basic TV, with free off-peak phone calls). Their Customer service is poor.

 

[plugwash]

I have cable here at my flat and my experiance, I don't do things like filesharing but for most ordinary internet use it seems fine and downstream speeds are as advertised.

It went through a phase where it wen't down (ordinary cable TV worked but ondemand and broadband were down) for a few hours every week or so though and tech support were no help at all. Reliability seems to have improved recently though.

IMO anyone who uses thier internet connection for important buisness purposes would be mad not to have some form of backup.

 

[Softus]

IMO anyone who uses thier internet connection for important buisness purposes would be mad not to have some form of backup.

Well, dialup is a valid backup, and it's not as though you can't walk around the corner and find a friend or neighbour with a hi-speed connection.

Advocating a backup (of anything) without assessing the risk involved is not a wise move.