Advice for replacing a Keston in 2 bed flat

[macta]

Hi there - 5 years ago I replaced a leaking Potterton boiler with a Keston C25 (it was reccomended due to the fluing being awkward as boiler is downstairs in a split level flat).

The Keston has been nothing but trouble - at first it chuffed, so was forced to have a bypass installed, and then it kept getting hydrogen in the system (radiators constantly filling with gas), so then it was converted to sealed system (that was a waste of money - it made no difference). Now its conked out and it looks like the heat exchanger is gone.

So I have had some quotes for replacing the whole lot with a Combi system - and everyone seems to be recomending Vaillant (which I read good things about here).

I seem to get pointed to either an Ecotec 831 or an 824 (not sure which one I need). Its a 2 bedroom flat with 6 radiators. I have 1 bathroom with a shower and a bath.

Some quotes insist on a power flush other says that given it was flushed 5 years ago it should be ok.

They all say the gas to the boiler needs upgrading to 25mm (which is probably under a floor board somewhere as it goes into the building at 25). 1 quote says I should add £30/m for copper pipe for that upgrade (which sounds steep - but they said copper is expensive).

As I feel I was totally ripped off the last couple of times, I'm quite "gun shy" of the whole operation and mad as hell that I even have to get a new system only 5 years later.

Can anyone give any advice/tips? Am I on the right track with this?

Tim

 

[Nixt]

Your problems are not necessarily down to any fault with the boiler. I can sympathise with you but can't understand why it never seems to dawn on many OP's that the competency of their installer is of more significance than their choice of boiler brand.

 

[Agile]

I did not think that a C25 was ever permitted to be fitted on an open vented system?

They looked good when they first came out and I even fitted one myself! Unfortunately they turned out to be less reliable !

Its best that you take the advice of your chosen CORGI installer as the fluing will still need to be sorted out.

The gas supply needs to be adequate and probably needs upgrading. The system should be clean. It may need power flushing again or it may be OK but whatever make sure the installer takes responsibility if he chooses not to flush it again.

Tony

 

[Nixt]

I did not think that a C25 was ever permitted to be fitted on an open vented system.

I've only installed the one Agile, but remember that the MI's said 'preferably on a sealed system'. As they have an integral shunt pump it's difficult to see why anyone would bother trying it on open evnt.

 

[macta]

Your problems are not necessarily down to any fault with the boiler. I can sympathise with you but can't understand why it never seems to dawn on many OP's that the competency of their installer is of more significance than their choice of boiler brand.

I would agree with that- but its not easy for a homeowner like me to really know who is good or not?

The company that installed the system (Precision Systems) sounded like they knew their stuff - they spotted a neat solution with the fluing - and it all seemed to get installed ok. But it was 6 months later when it was colder that I spotted the chuffing, and then they didn't really want to know.

Keston serviced my boiler the first couple of years, and their engineers consistently broke it each time they serviced it (and had to come back the next day to make things work). Following that finding anyone who would actually come and look at the boiler was very difficult and expensive - those that did definitily didn't know their stuff.

Overall I am not impressed - on my new checklist is making sure its a mainstream boiler that is easy to get serviced.

And I am looking here for any tips on ensuring that I pick a good installer.

So far the quotes I have got have all been different and contradictory (although consistently recomending Vaillant - which seems a bit suspicious) making me wonder what to think.

No-one agrees on the fluing - some suggest on my basement floor (where the boiler is located) that I have to extend the flu under some decking (that bridges over the basement exit) and it will plume next to where my outside table is. Others suggest I can have a vertical 3m run up the wall and plume above the upstairs door and a 3rd says I have to do that run inside the flat and then go through the wall above the door. So I am already suspicious.

Then there are £30/m of copper gas pipe charges (which sounds dodgy) and then finally - is an Ecotec 824 suitable in place of an 831?

And should they be interested the problems I had with the Keston to make sure I don't simply replcate them.

How can you really tell - its a nasty lottery as far as I can see.

Tim

 

[simond]

How can you tell indeed.

You go with the person that makes the most sense. None of us can fit the boiler across the internet, so you had better go on the most knowledgable person that came round.

Something tells me this person might have been the £30 a metre man...

Generally all kestons are carp. They are easy to install and especially in locations where a conventional concentric flued boiler can be difficult to flue up.

Bear in mind the air inlet to a Vaillant has to be in a place that can't block with snow or leaves. The air outlet can be fitted where it doesn't cause a nuisance. The mention of decking in relation to the flue makes this job sound problematical.

If you haven't found someone you believe in, get another quote.

But, in my Mr Estimator role, I can tell you that if a customer gets more than 4 quotes the problem is normally closer to home, if you get my drift.

 

[ChrisR]

Get a quote from British Gas. It'll be high, but at least what they suggest won't be down to the whim of an individual installer.

 

[Agile]

Get a quote from British Gas. It'll be high, but at least what they suggest won't be down to the whim of an individual installer.

I thought the BG salesmen were not gas qualified and even less likely to be able to offer a solution on the spot?

Unfortunately customers tend to go with the lowest quote, regardless of their merit!

In this case, the apparent animosity towards the only installer who has raised the need for an upgraded gas supply and included that in the quote at £30/m installed, seems to prove the point.

Tony

 

[tonybhoy]

The guy has a fair point though.

I mean £30 p/m for 22 CU,which costs £3 p/m, does seem a bit steep even if it does include the labour.

Giving the installer the benefit of the doubt here but £27 to fit a meter of pipe?C'mon.

If I were the OP I would seriously consider Chris' suggestion of using BG,for 'difficult' jobs such as this one they are definitely the better option,IMO.

BTW,I think BG's price for 22MM copper fitted per/meter is about £22.

 

[simond]

I would vehemently disagree.

BG estimators are fixed to using a very small range of products and usually have no experience of solutions outside the BG portfolio.

If you have a difficult job a good independent will find a solution. BG are only set up for simple stuff.

I went to a very large mansion the other day, BG had replaced the heating. 4 little separate Glowworm boilers dotted in all sorts of strange places in the house. Gas pipes everywhere.

Their estimator had just sold the elderly owner four separate domestic systems. One of the boilers was at the top of the stairs, the installation had devalued the house.