Advice Needed On First Fixing Garden Lighting For Cus

[avinnovations]

Hi, I'm new to the forum; my name is Chris. I run an Audio Visual business based in Berkshire. Please feel free to message me with an AV related questions and I will do my best to help!

I wondered if I would be able to ask some advise on exterior garden lighting ... I am doing a big AV job for a lovely customer at the moment. She has had, and is still having, a nightmare with her current builder. I would be all day telling you all about it but the build is a year over due and all monies were demanded up front. Furthermore for every additional thing the customer wants doing she is being charged extortionate amounts of money!

The builder's "recommended" electrician, for example, quoted over £3000 for an alarm system I installed for £350! And so on ...

So she has asked my advise on outside lighting. The garden is currently being landscaped and so we are running out of time to get cables in; naturally the builder is trying to capitalise on this by quoting ridiculous prices to get their guy to install.

I am not Part P qualified so will not be able to do the job myself, however I want to help give the customer more time to find a reasonably priced electrician. My plan would be to first fix the cables in this weekend so that a qualified sparky can second fix the lighting and connect everything up at the end.



So here is what she would like:

- About 20 to 25 post / bollard lights along paths, flowerbeds etc
- 10 to 20 recessed decking lights
- Spot / spike flood lights to illuminate a water feature


Now my understanding is that she will need a 2.5mm 3 core armored cable run from the fuse board on a separate RCD to some sort of distribution / junction block in the shed?

Then would I need to run an individual cable from the junction in the shed to each of the 20-25 post lights. Or would I be able to run a cable from the shed (for example) to light 1, then to 2, then to 3 then to 4 and so on in series? Or finally run the cable from the shed to light 1, 2 ,3 all the way to 25 and then return that cable back into the shed like a ring main of power sockets?

The deck lights could be run back to a spur of the sockets in the house.


That's about where I am up to! I am fine with network cables, phone, coax, AV anything like that .. basically electrical is fine but my head is swimming a bit!!

I just want to get all the cable in for the electrician so there is no digging up etc to be done.



Thanks!

 

[RF Lighting]

If the ground works really can not wait, then install twinwall flexiduct 450mm deep with warning tape above, and photograph the open trenches to show the appointed electrician what you have done.

There's no way we can spec up cable sizes without seeing the job, loadings, lengths, eathing system(s) and much more.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50MM-BLAC...-DUCTING-FOR-MAINS-SUPPLY-CABLE-/330897007421


BTW, £350 for an alarm sounds far too cheap. Did you make it cheap by installing inferior gear?

 

[avinnovations]

Hi there, thanks for your response.

She has asked for cables to be installed before groundwork is finished. And unfortunately you are correct; it really can not wait. This is nothing to do with me but the builders.

The customer has not purchased lights yet so would do so after cabling has been installed.

So lets say she used 20x bollard lights at 18w each such as:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLSSBL6.html

Am I right that 1.5mm armored cable would be enough or would the lights need 2.5mm to power them?

And then with regards to connecting them up would the electrician run individual cables from the junction box or do they run from light to light?

I will need this knowledge to even run ducting under the ground? Otherwise I would be running ducting from A to B without knowing how the electrician would want to wire the lights?


With regards to the alarm, I was not asking advise about this as I am already experienced in AV. If I choose to supply an alarm that suits the requirements of my customer at TRADE cost with NO labour then that is up to me. I don't feel that anyone should be commenting on this in such a way that would make me look like I don't know what I'm doing or to imply that I install dodgy systems.


Any help with the lighting questions would be very much appreciated, quite frankly I don't need to do a thing about it as its not my problem but when you have a customer crying down the phone to you as you are the only tradesman she has had in that she trusts, you feel obliged to help where you can; something I already did with the alarm system.


Thanks all in advance

 

[RF Lighting]

She has asked for cables to be installed before groundwork is finished. And unfortunately you are correct; it really can not wait. This is nothing to do with me but the builders.

Two choices here. Either the groundworks wait, or cables don't go in.

The customer has not purchased lights yet so would do so after cabling has been installed.

How can you design a circuit if you don't know what it'll be supplying?

So lets say she used 20x bollard lights at 18w each such as:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLSSBL6.html[/QUOTE]

What if she doesn't, and picks something twice or three times as power hungry, or something that requires a series ELV supply?

Am I right that 1.5mm armored cable would be enough or would the lights need 2.5mm to power them?

Dunno.

There's no way we can spec up cable sizes without seeing the job, loadings, lengths, eathing system(s) and much more.

And then with regards to connecting them up would the electrician run individual cables from the junction box or do they run from light to light?

Depends on the light, and what facility there is for SWA termination etc.

I will need this knowledge to even run ducting under the ground? Otherwise I would be running ducting from A to B without knowing how the electrician would want to wire the lights?

IF the lights will take it, i'd split them into two or four sections depending on run and loading, and daisy chain each bank of lights.

With regards to the alarm, I was not asking advise about this as I am already experienced in AV. If I choose to supply an alarm that suits the requirements of my customer at TRADE cost with NO labour then that is up to me. I don't feel that anyone should be commenting on this in such a way that would make me look like I don't know what I'm doing or to imply that I install dodgy systems.

It's an open forum. We can comment on what we like.

Any help with the lighting questions would be very much appreciated, quite frankly I don't need to do a thing about it as its not my problem but when you have a customer crying down the phone to you as you are the only tradesman she has had in that she trusts, you feel obliged to help where you can; something I already did with the alarm system.


Thanks all in advance

My advice is to not get involved. You can't even begin to spec this job, but it'll be you that gets blamed if it's wrong.

Explain to the customer that you'd love to help her, but this is not something you have the required skill or experience to do.

Will you be asked to spec up the heating system and gas lines if the plumber upsets her?

I've become very hard since I went into BUSINESS. I am not a charity, as I can not live off doing freebies and favours. People cry and try it on all the time. Don't fall for it.

 

[avinnovations]

My goodness what a lot of "quotes"!!

Well to be honest that was a complete waste of my time and yours. I "dunno" clearly shows you are not qualified to be asking my question, seeing as I gave you information you required and you still were unable to answer my question.


I am also not looking for business advise, so please keep that to yourself.


And as its an open forum then I assume one can post their opinions also?> Mine is that you seem like a bit of a tw*t!

Anyone else that would like to comment on my original question would still be appreciated but I now remember why I get so frustrated with forums; too many keyboard warriors!

 

[RF Lighting]

You still haven't told us the length of any of the runs. If you had the first clue about circuit design, you'd know this is absoloutely inherent to being able to size a cable, but you haven't and you don't.

As you haven't provided this, I can't possibly know or calculate what size cable your poor customer needs.

Unfortunately you'll soon realise that being rude just because you don't like the advice you're being given will very quickly kill your thread stone dead on this site.



p.s. I'm answering your question, not asking it