Advice on opening up fireplace

[EvilDonut]

I am currently trying to 'open up' our fireplace, which previously had a gas fire in. The brickwork that was exposed looks quite ugly and isn't really suitable to leave exposed, so I want to remove 2 layers of bricks from the back and sides, then replace them with 'rustic'-style bricks that are well laid. I want it so the final fireplace is taller, deeper and wider by about 1 brick on the back and sides, and 2 bricks higher up.

So step 1 for me was to strip back the plaster and see what I find:

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• EvilDonut
• 29 Jul 2013
• 1

I removed a brick so I could see inside, and it looks like there is a single skin of bricks leading right up to the archway - the apex of which is about 14 bricks higher than the hole I made.

I think the lintel is an important structural piece and if I remove it and the bricks either side of it, much of that outer 'front' skin of bricks would likely fall away.

Heres a pic of the lintel:

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• EvilDonut
• 29 Jul 2013
• 1

I'm unsure of how to proceed. Any ideas? I'm thinking that I will need some kind of temporary steel support device to hold up the front bricks, then I do my removals, then re-lay the back and sides up to the level of the steel support, then install some kind of permanent support/lintel. Perhaps angle iron or something?[/img]

Definitely worth mentioning that we will not actually be using the fireplace for a fire - we're blocking it off (but putting a vent in to prevent bad stuff happening with damp etc) and we're just having it for decorative reasons.

 

[Norcon]

Not worth doing unless you are fitting a stove. You would be better just bricking it up or filling it with concrete.

 

[EvilDonut]

I realise it is a bit of a can of worms and probably more work than I originally intended...but would quite like to go ahead if it isn't way way too much cost/work, as we'd like some kind of alcove there and I don't really want to just plaster up the alcove - we'd much prefer brick

Other similar posts seem to recommend installing a concrete lintel of 65x100mm cross-sectional area (so it fits in the place of a course of bricks) which extends 200mm on either side of the opening. I was hoping I could use an iron/steel one (as I wouldn't need to remove as much material) but the concrete one sounds do-able.

Just not too sure on the procedure to do this (e.g. temporary supports)

 

[Norcon]

If it comes down on you fred dibnah style you'll regret ever starting.
You must be nuts.

 

[EvilDonut]

There aren't that many bricks that would come down - just the bricks that cover the original builder's opening, not any from the actual chimney breast itself.

I've seen photos on the net of people doing this without any support on chimneys structurally the same as mine, although most posts recommend a steel support until the new lintel is in place.

But yep I think a bit of madness is involved

 

[dann09]

Why not hire an Acrow Strong Boy? You can then support the brickwork above any lintel height and work steady and safely.

By all means, use an angle iron, say, 3" x 3", cut by a scrapyard to your required length. Or hacksawed on site.

Clear away the mess you now have, and remove rubble as it comes out. Work clean.

Get everything req'd - tools and materials and Acrow - before starting.

Perhaps have the flue swept and smoke tested after getting the lintel in.

Dont put a vent on the face of the c/breast, you can put a hit and miss vent on the cover board, or plate, in the flue above the opening.

Research recent threads on this subject on here, and come back when ready and we'll walk you thro the job.

 

[EvilDonut]

Nice one, thanks

I'd just discovered the acro-props and they look like what I need

The intended width of the final opening will be about 700mm, so I was looking at a lintel width of about 900-1000mm. I've been looking at concrete lintels but would probably be better off with an iron one that could slip into the mortar gap between an existing course of bricks - then I won't need to remove a whole course for a concrete lintel.

So aside from installing the new lintel, do you reckon there's any other tricky bits? There is a damper/smoke shelf that might need to be messed with in order to open it up to the desired height, but if thats a no-go then I could just not go as tall.

I'm reading an excellent guide here:
http://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/articles/opening-up-a-fireplace/

Some diagram I found referred to my small visible iron lintel as the 'mini-lintel' and suggested that there would be a larger main lintel higher up- but if this exists then it must be quite high as I've not found it yet. Maybe I will chip away more plaster tomorrow and have a look.

Edit: On and yep I didn't mean put a vent on the face as I don't want it to be visible...I was meaning on the opening up into the smoke shelf area. Thats right isn't it?

 

[dann09]

1. You need an "Acrow Strong Boy". Once its inserted you can safely remove brickwork for conc lintel or angle iron.
You could get away with 75mm bearings.

2. The damper/ ironwork up the flue, including the present "lintel" can be safely removed with no detriment to the c/breast.

3. There's nothing "tricky" about inserting either lintel, merely open up 700mm to the desired ht. and then take a brick away on either side for bearing, insert your lintel and lay some bricks or wedge them up with slate or plain tile.

4. Dont go removing or opening any more than is strictly necessary, and stay away from the outside corners of the c/breast. Your iron "lintel" appears to be a cast iron fire grate or grill.

5. Your vent positioning is correct.

 

[EvilDonut]

1) Can I get away with just one strongboy/acrow or would I need two? The opening is only 700mm wide so I'd guess one should suffice...that 'stove fitters handbook' website even says that you don't need any support if the gap is less than a metre, however my mortar is not in good condition - the brick I removed was pretty loose already, and some others are not too sturdy either, so I'm a bit wary about trusting that advice for my chimney

2) Great, because for the height I want the damper would be right in the way

4) Ok thats fine - the chimney breast is about 1600mm-1700mm wide so I won't need to go anywhere near the corners. I suspect there is a second flue for the bedroom, hence the large width of the chimney breast.

I think I may have spotted my 'main lintel' using a mirror and torch to look up the inside of the chimney - if it is actually a lintel then its a fairly thin piece of wood, can't be more than 1.5" or so thick. Not sure what state that would be in given that the house was built ~1890.

 

[dann09]

1. If i was doing the job then i wouldn't even use a Strongboy. However you are a DIY'er and you asked and i told. Use a single Strongboy.

I'm concerned that you claim to have seen a piece of wood up the flue. How far up? Wooden flue lintels were never used, to my knowledge, in small dwellings, and they certainly wouldn't project into the flue itself.
More info and a pic please.

If wood is in there, then it has to come out - if not for you, then for future occupiers safety.

 

[EvilDonut]

Ok tomorrow I will excavate further up to the suspected wooden lintel and check it - I cant really get a photo using my mirror/torch arrangement, as I could hardly even see anything anyway with that - which is why I'm probably incorrect about the wooden lintel. I have seen a website ( http://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/articles/opening-up-a-fireplace/ ) written by a stove fitter who says he's seen wooden lintels before.

The suspected lintel does not project into the flue at all, and may just turn out to be a thicker line of morter...the mirror/torch really didn't give me a great view.

More photos to follow after tomorrow's excavation

 

[EvilDonut]

Update:
I've excavated much more to the side now, but not gone any higher. By the time I finished last night I looked like a Victorian chimney-sweep!

Instead of doing it properly and renting an Acrow/Strongboy, I've made my own from offcuts of wood and a heavy duty angle bracket:

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• EvilDonut
• 2 Aug 2013
• 1

An acrow would have had to go in the centre, which would have been right in my way, so this has worked out better (for now!)

Here is the current plan:
1) Excavate more on the sides (roughly to the vertical lengths of wood in the picture)

2) Clean up!

3) Level up the base using concrete, about 1" - 1.5" should be ok, with some scrap sheet wood and maybe plastic sheeting under it.

4) Lay the bricks (the interior area will be 300x600mm and the height will be 900mm). This will be the hardest phase as I've never laid bricks before, and these have to look perfect or the wife will complain

5) Lay the new lintel on top of the bricks. I have a 900mm lintel so that leaves a generous 150mm bearing each side, meaning I'll have to excavate at least a further 60mm on each side

6) Use mortar to fill up the remaining space between the new lintel and the old course of bricks above the lintel. Ideally this gap would be under an inch, but I'm going to have to trust fate on this one

7) Install fixings for a 'floating-shelf' style oak mantel, that I have not sourced yet. Not sure how I'm going to do this, I've not researched it yet.

8 ) Install mantel

9) Render the exposed bits of the wall and skim over with plaster

10) Pour some more concrete for the bit infront of the hearth (so it will be raised about an inch above floor height)

11) Lay some nice stone tiles on the base


So quite a lot to do!

 

[EvilDonut]

I've had a good look inside the chimney and cannot find any lintel at all, just 5 courses of horizontal bricks followed by a decorative course of vertical bricks, then I can't really see after that because of the layer of ash. Here:

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• EvilDonut
• 2 Aug 2013
• 1

This worries me a bit as I had assumed there was a lintel, so worst case scenario would be 4-5 courses of facade-bricks would fall down....now the worst case is a bit worse. The bricks themselves seem to be doing a good job of holding themselves up, and the opening is only about 80cm which shouldn't be enough to collapse it even without the DIY-prop.

So I (carefully!) finished my demolition and poured a mortar base about 1" thick. Levelled it nicely (bubble right in the middle ) and I'm currently waiting for it to go tacky to smooth it off.

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• EvilDonut
• 2 Aug 2013
• 1

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• EvilDonut
• 2 Aug 2013
• 1

I won't have time to do anything on it for a couple of days so that'll give it time to set - then bricklaying can commence!

 

[EvilDonut]

Update:

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• EvilDonut
• 4 Aug 2013
• 1

Got a few courses of bricks down. So far so good.