Advice on replacing two mortice deadlocks

[elsmandino]

Hello.

I was burgled about six years and I hired a carpenter to put in a new back door with two deadlocks and a sashlock.

About six months ago, they both started to go a bit funny and now neither of them open from the inside (and one of them has to be wiggled, from the outside, to open).

I tried to get them working again, but have decided just to replace them.

I had a look on Screwfix's website to try and identify the existing lock but could not find an exact match.

This is the closest I could find (everything seems to be the same, except that the bolt on my locks has four holes in it, rather than two):

https://www.screwfix.com/p/era-5-lever-chrome-5-lever-mortice-deadlock-64mm-case-44mm-backset/8777v

I assumed that all locks were completely interchangable, as long as you stuck to the same case and backset length, but this appears not to be the case.

I bought one of these and it does not fit:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-lo...mortice-deadlock-65mm-case-45mm-backset/9026g

Firstly, the face plate of the lock is longer on the new locks and so they will not fit in.

Secondly, the strike plates for the new lock are shorter but wider than the existing ones and so they will not fit either.

My ultimate question is was I unlucky or do I have to go for another ERA lock?

 

[blup]

If you don't want the trouble of chiselling out the mortice etc to fit a different make, get another Era, i have found them to be good locks.

I assume you have sprayed the mechanism with wd40 or the like?

Blup

 

[KenGMac]

elsmandino, good evening.

Have you attempted to remove the locks, one at a time.

Dismantle the lock there are generally one or two grub screws, and the side plate will come off.

Check that the grub screws are tight before you start.

Clear out any dirt and debris you can see.

Remove the "brass" funny shaped "wards" that generally have a single steel spring, make absolutely sure that you remove them and replace in the exact order, clean the "wards, lightly oil prior to re-assembly.

Re-fit the side plate with the grub screws and try the key.

The bolt can also be removed, cleaned and re-placed, just get the order of dismantling and re-assembling in correct order, take photos on your phone for peace of mind?

Easier method?? look on U-tube for a how to do it??

Ken.

 

[JohnD]

Show us a photo of your old lock(s) please, with measurements.

From your description, I suspect the key is worn. Have you got an unused spare?

Try that before you rush into replacement or servicing.

If you do take one apart

Write numbers on the five levers as you take them out, with a permanent marker such as a Stabilo (you may have to remove dirt and grease with white spirit first) or scratch it on with a sharp scribing tool. They are probably brass. This is so you can later reassemble them in exactly the same order.

Examine each lever carefully after that, looking for a tiny number stamped on it. This is not for the assembly sequence, but allows you to buy new levers, or locks, fitting the same key. I have all my locks at the back of the house suited so one key will work them all, this is very convenient. New levers cost a few pounds each.

Also, look at the words and numbers on the brass faceplate, especially the year in the British Standard stamp. Your old locks may have the red-painted case which is superior to the grey one in your link.

For example https://www.screwfix.com/p/era-satin-nickel-bs-5-lever-mortice-deadlock-64mm-case-44mm-backset/93346

 

[JohnD]

P.s.

I can put you in touch with a supplier who will be able to match your old locks or if, as I suspect, your key is worn out, make a new one to fit.

But there is probably a real locksmith (not a DIY shed) in your town who can do it. Knowing the lock model, and the lever numbers, will help greatly.

 

[Newboy]

sprayed the mechanism with wd40

Avoid oil in locks - dust and grit stick to it.

Use a graphite lubricant if possible.

 

[elsmandino]

Thanks everyone for your advice - apologies for having not been back on here sooner.

Having had a look at the locks, I have concluded that they are knackered - I have tried both sets of keys in each and neither work properly in either lock.

My wife also tried to use the locks whilst I wasn't around one in particular is now really broken - the key can sometimes turn all the way around with doing anything and then suddenly it opens the lock.

I think that I am going to take the hit and buy two new replacement ERA locks (and perhaps look after them this time) - one thing that does worry me is that the locks that I currently have, appear not to be BS3621 compliant, which would have screwed up my insurance.

I have taken the locks out and have done some measuring (with advice from the internet).

It seems that they have the following:

Case Height: 65mm
Backset: 44mm
Case Height: 87mm
Forend Length: 134mm
Forend Width: 26mm

I have read that the following two companies are pretty reasonable for locks and have found models on each that would appear to fit:

https://www.lockshopdirect.co.uk/pr...era-261-31-67mm-(2-5-inch-)-20549/#detailtabs

https://www.locksonline.co.uk/Locks...Era-208-308--BS3621-Invincible-Dead-Lock.html

Is there any difference between them?

They have very slightly different names and the latter one has gold keys.

 

[JohnD]

how about some photos, front and side, of your old ones?

Do they have red-painted cases?

are they like the one I linked?

If you open the case, is there rust, dirt, or broken parts?

The fault could possibly be due to the levers not springing back, either because a spring is broken, or dirt and corrosion have jammed the free movement. I have not known this happen on a quality lock with brass levers, though. I clean and service my own locks about once in ten years. The outer case is steel and can rust round the keyhole.

Closed keyhole covers (both sides) will prevent wind and rain getting in, or grit and dust.

The BS number (and now, version year) is always stamped on the decorative brass or stainless fore-end of compliant locks.

If you had three locks fitted to your back door, your insurance would probably accept that even if they were not BS compliant. Mine does, as long as the supplementary locks have removable keys which are removed when unattended.

p.s.
As far as I can see, this
https://www.eraeverywhere.com/defau...-british-standard-deadbolt-mortice-door-lock/
Is ERA's latest version of the 5-lever BS3621 deadlock.

To my eye, it looks the same as the "locks online" picture which seems to have four anti-saw rods in the brass bolt, rather than the laminated steel type. They offer free keying alike, which is very useful.

"lockshop direct" charge an extra £8 per lock to have them keyed alike.

"gold" keys are usually brass, which IMO are preferable to steel ones, though they will eventually wear out, that's better than the lock levers wearing out.

Buy a few spares and keep at least one safe and unused. That way it will never wear out and you can have it copied if necessary in future.

 

[elsmandino]

Unfortunately, I did not get covers for the outside of the door until for quite a few months after they had been installed and I never did get them for the inside - shall make sure to do this for the new locks.

Furthermore, when the carpenter asked me what locks I wanted, I made the mistake of asking for cheap and cheerful - I had no idea that you could buy locks that were not accepted by the insurance companies.

I am a bit worried about taking the lock apart, in case I cannot get it all back together again - and leaving a semi-unlocked door until I can get a replacement.

 

[elsmandino]

Wow - very impressive. As you say, the Locksonline lock does seem to have a different bolt (I never would have noticed that in a million years) - I assume that the anti-saw rods must be the superior?

Plus, if the brass key is better too, I shall definitely get that model and do exactly as you say - i.e. keep them as master keys and create a number of copies for operational use.

 

[JohnD]

the bolt type might have been altered as production progressed. I don't know which is better, the BS test includes resisting attempts to saw through it. I spotted later that the ERA has photos showing both types so I don't know which is newer. You could give them a ring.

I favour brass for lock parts as it doesn't rust.

if you order spare keys with the locks, they are pretty sure to be a good fit. When you order locks on same key, you only get two keys included, however many locks you buy, because of the way the extra locks are assembled.

p.s.
Seen the photos now. The grey-cased lock is a cheaper type.

 

[elsmandino]

Thanks ever so much for that, John - I owe you a bundle. I shall give them a ring to check, as suggested, and let you know what they say.

 

[JohnD]

the dimensions of the old one are probably as shown here.
https://www.eraeverywhere.com/defau.../viscount-5-lever-deadbolt-mortice-door-lock/

you may need some chisel work for the keep in the doorframe, if it is bigger.

 

[JohnD]

the new one is probably this