Advice Req - Manhole/Inspection Chamber relocation

[NHW]

Hi guys,

I'm looking to have an extension on the rear of my property but right where i want to have the extension is what i assume to either be a manhole or an inspection chamber, hopefully it is the latter as that seems to require the least amount of work.

Did try to peek under it myself by buying the right tools to lift it up but even with the right tools and 2 people it wasn't possible, think its been unopened since the property was built 30 years ago so its probably extremely sealed and requires a professional.

I have tried to see what kind of formalities are needed in order to have this manhole/inspection chamber moved but i am getting alot of back and forth between my council planning dept and United Utilities.

Council referred me to UU in order to seek advice, which i did and they advised that I can move the manhole/chamber without any 'formal' permission from them only as long as it is built to a specific standard and the council planning dept approving of its construction. The gentleman from UU basically said that a while back they had passed over the responsibilities of these matters to the local councils and as long as they are happy with the work carried out, then all is good.

So I'm basically just seeing if anybody has had any similar work carried out and their experience of how they managed to relocate a manhole/chamber.

At the moment i'm just trying to figure out what steps i need to take, i assume that i should:

1 - employ a drainage firm to check what is actually under there and hence will be able to know if it is a manhole or just an inspection chamber. I asked UU if they have any records and they said that even if they do it may not actually show what is there because it may only show drainage/sewage up to the point of the public road and not on my private property

2 - apply to the council for approval to have this work carried out (planning perm possibly required?)

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[bernardgreen]

If the sewer is shared with another property then it is the water company's responsibility to maintain it.

If it serves only your house then it is your responsibility but various regulations will apply to any work carried that involves sewers and drainage.

http://www.unitedutilities.com/sewers-and-drains-explained.aspx

 

[NHW]

Hi Bernard thanks for your reply,

Spoken to both UU and the council again asking if either have detailed plans of the water/sewage system which is under my property.

UU reconfirmed saying that they have 'around' the property but not within my boundaries, stating that they may possibly be within the house deeds

Council - questioning why i was requesting these details and stating that they do not have these types of documents?

Instead i found a local company who are domestic + commercial drain specialists (lanes for drains) and will be coming out tomorrow to see if they can lift this cover up and see what is underneath, even if they do manage to do this i assume if i want any work to be carried out i would still need to find the blueprint/plans for the water system otherwise they would have to dig up the entire garden just to see what is connected to what?

Has anybody managed to get their water/sewage plans for their property before and if so how did you manage to do this as i assume it should be a fairly common standard? Many Thanks

 

[Newboy]

It is rare for anybody to have drain plans for their property. They can rarely be found with the deeds or occasionally if you still have copies of the building plans (but the actual may differ from plan).

The water companies have plans of the public sewers (very occasionally this can include some sewers which were taken into public ownership on 1st October 2011 but this is unusual)

Your local council will never be able to provide this information as they have no interest in the sewer once signed off by a building inspector.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Local Councils used to hold sewer maps until a few years ago when most Water Companies took them back in house. However, few plans will show every last run, usually it's the 6" (and above) runs, once several properties have combined into the same sewer, before the run will feature on the map.

If this turns out to be a private sewer, (only taking waste from your property), then UU wont be interested, however Building Regs approval, (not Planning Permission), from the local Council will be needed. If its a shared sewer, then it will be UU's responsibility, and you will need their permission to carry out any works on or near the sewer. Find out whats going on and post back if you need further advice.

 

[NHW]

Hi guys thanks for your advice,

Today i managed to get the cover lifted up and turns out its just an inspection chamber and only flows in 1 direction (not sure which direction yet though). Have taken some pics while i had it up.

Is it good news for me that it is just an inspection chamber and not an actual manhole as i can only assume that having this relocated should be way more easier than having to construct a new manhole?

 

[Nige F]

It flows from R-L

 

[NHW]

Ah right ok that makes sense and its flowing from my kitchen to the outside, but if R-L then it would seem to suggest that it is flowing towards my back yard? i would have assumed that it would flow towards the main road which is the opposite direction (front of my house). obviously i know nothing about drainage but is it a good thing for me if it is flowing this direction?

 

[Newboy]

In your first picture it's flowing R to L

 

[Newboy]

As far as moving the site of the inspection chamber goes:

1) There are two laterals joining the run - if these are live (rather than blanked off) then you will either need to move/extend the laterals to the site of the new chamber or provide an alternative means of clearing them in the event of a blockage.

2) You don't need Planning Permission to alter drainage but it must comply with Building Regulations (the two are often confused)
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_H_2010.pdf

3) Whoever you appoint to 'do' your extension should be able to advise you of the requirements under Building Regs (if they can't then you've chosen the wrong builder!)

This assumes that you have a private sewer which seems most likely given the chamber location

 

[NHW]

Hi newboy,

Thanks for your advice, i can see what you mean by the laterals. Im going to pour some water down there to see if they are in use or not because from the angle that i looked down it seemed as though it was blanked off.

I cant actually 'move' the cover away from the hole location ifself due to a brick wall being in my way, the best i can do is hoist it up and take some pics from a distance as i didnt want to stick my arms under a 50kg floating weight haha

Might just get some rods and poke around to see if it really is just flowing in 1 direction

 

[Newboy]

Good call - don't put anything under that 'floating cover'.

If the main run is flowing in two directions then you have a new gravity defying drainage system!

The direction of the run is R to L (in your first photo) - get somebody to flush WCs, run basins and sinks in sequence while you watch the chamber so that you can find out what connections you have.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Laterals are always angled into direction of flow, so flow is definitely from R-L, (unless by some miracle the drain layer put it in the wrong way round. (And nothing would surprise me....) This will probably join onto a drain run across the rear gardens, communing a number of homes on the same run, until eventually joining into the main sewer under the road. From the point that run joins with the run from one or more other properties, or passes under your boundary, it becomes UU's responsibility, so maybe worth checking how much further it goes.

Looks to me like both laterals are blanked off, it's been (sensibly) put in to allow access to the run if ever required. Good news is, hopefully it will be fairly easy to move, provided the run continues in a straight line to a point outside the footprint of your proposed extension, and there is room before it hits the main run, it is fairly straightforward to simply remove the chamber from that point and bridge the gap with a section of pipe, then either relocate the chamber further downstream, or install a chamber on the junction where your run joins the main sewer outside the proposed extension.

 

[Nige F]

Thanks for elaborating guys. I was a bit tired after a week of refurbing my son's bathroom

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Finally got round to fixing my basin to the wall properly this week, only taken me 8 years.....