Air Source Heat Pumps…

With ASHP its all about the system design. 55°c is the highest heating temperature most want to be designed to, however that's not the gold standard by any stretch, you want the system designed to be able to produce the required heat output at the lowest possible temperature (bigger radiators/UFH) if you can hit 45°c that system will run a better COP than at 55°c, if you can design it to 35°c that will be significantly more efficient again.

The units use different refrigerant gasses and as such have different outputs at different outside temperatures, ie: R410a units are an older type that can generally only scrape just over 60°c and will require an immersion heater to boost the cylinder temperature during legionella cycles or in winter when the ASHP may struggle to reach required output. R290 units (newer types) can typically hit 75°c so do not need immersion backup, they work to lower outdoor temperatures although there will still be a drop off when very cold, ie it may only reach 65°c when its -10°c outside.

With regards to only being suitable to heat newbuilds, well that's just nonsense. If your house requires X kilowatts of heat, and you provide x kilowatts of heat, you will have successfully heated it. The difference is in the economy of cost, electricity is much more expensive than gas (at the moment) So even on efficient systems its difficult to have the ASHP running cheaper than a gas boiler. This may well change with energy pricing going nuts, and the likelihood that the government will probably shift the green levies off of electricity and load them onto gas in the near future.

Compared to oil/LPG, many people with good installs find them cheaper to run, with mains gas and a good setup you can reasonably break even and have it not cost any more. Insulation is certainly something that should be looked at first, regardless of your heat source, just because we can heat a building "easier" with gas, doesn't mean its not an unforgivable amount of wastage and CO2 emissions. Getting basic insulation and draught proofing done first should be the priority of any house hold, not just those going to ASHP.

Heat pumps are being pushed to help the environment, not to save you money. But there are factors that can help. Solar panels if you already have them lend themselves nicely to heat pumps, as you dont have a heat pump "off" during the day, it has a "set-back" temperature ideally only a few degrees lower than your "comfort" temperature, so the solar often covers this there for making significant contribution to your heating which otherwise may be wasted during the day or fed back to grid for pittance. Time of use tarrifs, such as those that gave 5p/kwh overnight for electric vehicle charging means the HP would run overnight for very very little cost maintaining the background heat when the outside temperature is lowest and therefore least efficient. Also the cheap tarrfis can be used to preheat the hot water cylinder or heating buffer to store heat when the electricity cost is at its lowest.

I know people who take advantage of the above points and have significantly reduced running costs compared to gas. Plus once gas meter is removed they instantly save from the standing charges applied to a gas supply.

Your posts are great.

So, heat pumps can, in a normal domestic situation, generate enough heat during all seasons to match the load requirements of older houses without significant modification to the building?

Didn't know that tbh and it's not what i hear or read during my research. (I'm doing study on this in advance of replacing my boiler in the future).

Ireland has a grant agency and they have a heat load calculator. I struggle to get my house to a BER rating (B2) which is the ASHP benchmark without some significant changes to the house including reducing air flow, replacing glazing and insulating the cavities fully which I don't want to do for a number of reasons.

I'll revisit my assumptions.
 
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So, heat pumps can, in a normal domestic situation, generate enough heat during all seasons to match the load requirements of older houses without significant modification to the building?

Yes. On the caveat if your using electricity it will cost more per KWh, and if the building has a high heat loss this will then amplify costs, but the physics of heating it will be no different to any other fuel source, you just match the heat source (heatpump & rads/UFH) to the heat loss of the building.

The issue with most of the "heat pump cost me thousands to run and house was cold" articles, is the people fitting them, do not have a clue about heating. Most gas fitters (and I include myself in years gone by) do not size up heating systems and boilers. They fit a boiler that is generally miles over the size required, and what ever radiators fit under the windows, and in general, that will heat most houses. The tolerances on a heat pump system are not the same as with gas.

You start by doing a full heatloss survey of the property (which gas fitters should do but typically dont) this will give you the heat loss of the house at a set outside temperature, for my location thats around -4°c outside temperature, and my heat loss is about 6.8kw at that temperature. This will include the heat loss for each individual room.

You then need to decide what temperature you want to run the system at, at -4°c outside in this case. I've opted for 45°c (as I cant fit UFH so will be using radiators, and much lower than 45°c will generally mean some hideously large radiators)

Knowing the heat loss for each room, and the flow temperature I will be using at design temperature, I need to know the mean temperature of the radiators to gauge their output at this temp. With boilers, we would use between 11 and 20°c temperature difference across the radiators depending on when the system was fitted (and assuming at that point any calculations were in fact even done (doubtful))

What this means is that giving 45°c flow to the radiator, on a system with a DT (temperature difference) of 11°c, we would have 45°c flow, and 34°c return to the heat source. (standard efficiency boilers were generally about 80°c flow/69°c return, condensing boilers 70°/50°c (again only if it were actually sized and balanced correctly)

With ASHP, we generally need a DT of 5°c. We do that by flowing much more water round the system. So in our case were sizing for 45°c flow temperature, and 40°c return temperature, which would require about 4 times the water flow rate through the radiator than the equivalent condensing boiler running a DT of 20°c. Thus why heat pumps often need larger water pipework fitted as they need much higher flow rates.

Knowing each rooms heat loss in Kw, the fact that were using 45/40°c flow and return temps, we can then workout the size of radiator needed for each room, which will also give us the size of pipework needed to each radiator and to the heat pump. The overall heat loss for the house is how we would determine the heat pump size also.

But you must be aware that unlike boilers, you don't select a 7kw heat pump where you would a 7kw boiler (if they had 7kw boilers) The heat pump output is dependant on the source temperature (air) and the emitter temperature (radiators) so we need a heat pump that will provide 7kw at 45°c flow temperature with a source temperature of -4°c outside. That same heat pump may not be able to provide 7kw if the flow temperature was 55°c or 65°c against -4°c as the heat output power is variable depending on conditions unlike a gas boiler which will be a fixed output regardless.

So we have the Heat pump selected, the radiator sizes, the pipe sizes, good to go? No. there's more to work out.

As mentioned in other posts, heat pumps have what they call a defrost cycle. You are extracting heat from the outside air and moving it to water pipes inside. This can only mean that the outside unit inevitably gets colder than the surrounding air. In winter, when temperatures are low, and humidity is high (as is the case for out wet little island) you will get frost formation on the evaporator (the bit that extracts the heat from the air) this looks like a finned car radiator, and as it frosts up the fins become blocked reducing its capacity to pull heat from the air.

This happens on all units. And is a perfectly normal and expected part of ASHP operation. Now begins the defrost cycle. The unit essentially goes into reverse. It draws warm water from the heating system, runs its internal refrigeration circuit backwards to heat the evaporator temporarily to de-ice the unit, before returning to normal heating operation.

To do this successfully in one short burst, there must be a minimum system volume (which is quite large) Most reports of units constantly defrosting and never getting the system up to temperature in the winter will be because this fact has escaped the installer, and they have not fitted adequate provision for de-icing, in the form of a buffer tank.


A buffer tank serves multiple purposes, but the primary one being to give the system enough heated water volume that it can run a defrost cycle when required, without adversely impacting the heat inside the property and get it defrosted in one hit, rather than cycling on defrost almost constantly.

Theres a number of other things that also need to be taken into account in the specifying of a system, but thats the basics. If system specification and installation is done properly, then any property can be heated with a heat pump. And any well insulated property can be heated very efficiently with very low CO2 production, which as said, is the goal of a heat pump.
 
Yes. On the caveat if your using electricity it will cost more per KWh, and if the building has a high heat loss this will then amplify costs, but the physics of heating it will be no different to any other fuel source, you just match the heat source (heatpump & rads/UFH) to the heat loss of the building.

The issue with most of the "heat pump cost me thousands to run and house was cold" articles, is the people fitting them, do not have a clue about heating. Most gas fitters (and I include myself in years gone by) do not size up heating systems and boilers. They fit a boiler that is generally miles over the size required, and what ever radiators fit under the windows, and in general, that will heat most houses. The tolerances on a heat pump system are not the same as with gas.

You start by doing a full heatloss survey of the property (which gas fitters should do but typically dont) this will give you the heat loss of the house at a set outside temperature, for my location thats around -4°c outside temperature, and my heat loss is about 6.8kw at that temperature. This will include the heat loss for each individual room.

You then need to decide what temperature you want to run the system at, at -4°c outside in this case. I've opted for 45°c (as I cant fit UFH so will be using radiators, and much lower than 45°c will generally mean some hideously large radiators)

Knowing the heat loss for each room, and the flow temperature I will be using at design temperature, I need to know the mean temperature of the radiators to gauge their output at this temp. With boilers, we would use between 11 and 20°c temperature difference across the radiators depending on when the system was fitted (and assuming at that point any calculations were in fact even done (doubtful))

What this means is that giving 45°c flow to the radiator, on a system with a DT (temperature difference) of 11°c, we would have 45°c flow, and 34°c return to the heat source. (standard efficiency boilers were generally about 80°c flow/69°c return, condensing boilers 70°/50°c (again only if it were actually sized and balanced correctly)

With ASHP, we generally need a DT of 5°c. We do that by flowing much more water round the system. So in our case were sizing for 45°c flow temperature, and 40°c return temperature, which would require about 4 times the water flow rate through the radiator than the equivalent condensing boiler running a DT of 20°c. Thus why heat pumps often need larger water pipework fitted as they need much higher flow rates.

Knowing each rooms heat loss in Kw, the fact that were using 45/40°c flow and return temps, we can then workout the size of radiator needed for each room, which will also give us the size of pipework needed to each radiator and to the heat pump. The overall heat loss for the house is how we would determine the heat pump size also.

But you must be aware that unlike boilers, you don't select a 7kw heat pump where you would a 7kw boiler (if they had 7kw boilers) The heat pump output is dependant on the source temperature (air) and the emitter temperature (radiators) so we need a heat pump that will provide 7kw at 45°c flow temperature with a source temperature of -4°c outside. That same heat pump may not be able to provide 7kw if the flow temperature was 55°c or 65°c against -4°c as the heat output power is variable depending on conditions unlike a gas boiler which will be a fixed output regardless.

So we have the Heat pump selected, the radiator sizes, the pipe sizes, good to go? No. there's more to work out.

As mentioned in other posts, heat pumps have what they call a defrost cycle. You are extracting heat from the outside air and moving it to water pipes inside. This can only mean that the outside unit inevitably gets colder than the surrounding air. In winter, when temperatures are low, and humidity is high (as is the case for out wet little island) you will get frost formation on the evaporator (the bit that extracts the heat from the air) this looks like a finned car radiator, and as it frosts up the fins become blocked reducing its capacity to pull heat from the air.

This happens on all units. And is a perfectly normal and expected part of ASHP operation. Now begins the defrost cycle. The unit essentially goes into reverse. It draws warm water from the heating system, runs its internal refrigeration circuit backwards to heat the evaporator temporarily to de-ice the unit, before returning to normal heating operation.

To do this successfully in one short burst, there must be a minimum system volume (which is quite large) Most reports of units constantly defrosting and never getting the system up to temperature in the winter will be because this fact has escaped the installer, and they have not fitted adequate provision for de-icing, in the form of a buffer tank.


A buffer tank serves multiple purposes, but the primary one being to give the system enough heated water volume that it can run a defrost cycle when required, without adversely impacting the heat inside the property and get it defrosted in one hit, rather than cycling on defrost almost constantly.

Theres a number of other things that also need to be taken into account in the specifying of a system, but thats the basics. If system specification and installation is done properly, then any property can be heated with a heat pump. And any well insulated property can be heated very efficiently with very low CO2 production, which as said, is the goal of a heat pump.

Ok. Brilliant post
So my question i need to ask my self then is not "can a ASHP replace my Gas boiler" (i had thought this to be a technical NO), but "should i replace my Gas boiler with a ASHP?".

That's a tall wall to climb over tbh. A cost/benefit analysis tells me that there may be no payback. The running and maintenance costs won't be such that i will save enough over the lifespan of the system to cover the install cost. It is likely that the lifespan cost of a ASHP is higher than an equivalent lifespan cost of simply replacing my gas boiler for new.

But that assumes the energy environment is stable and it isn't. Gas is only going to get more expensive and governments are only going to make it less economical.

So, on a new build house, where high efficiency is built into the fabric of the building and install costs integral to the price of the building, one can see that a ASHP system is viable. Even if lifespan cost is still greater than Gas discounting install and retrofit costs, you can still justify it with the reduced carbon footprint.

However, retrofitting a ASHP into a existing house has a potential for a big premium for building and infrastructure costs and, requires a significant change in the way the building is operated. Whilst you are future proofing your energy costs, that infrastructure premium is big.

It's not easy to shoehorn the equipment into an existing house either. My better half already has a running battle with the space used by the radiators in the house. I'm constantly frustrated by my family who seem to think nothing of burying them behind furniture, beds, cupboards etc and then complaining about rooms being cold, whilst having windows and doors constantly opened.

Then i have the psychological issues of heating in the house where people want to "feel," the heating.

Im not sure how the engineering of low temp ASHP's engages with the vagaries of the human being.

If you a buying a new build complete with ASHP, UFH, etc, you are buying into the heating system as well. You have a different mindset to that of a house with std Gas heating.

It's like retrofitting a classic car with an electric power unit. It works but....

I think for me its going to be a case of changing to a ASHP because i have to due to energy costs or government intervention, rather than changing over because it's a current net benefit to the household.
 
If system specification and installation is done properly, then any property can be heated with a heat pump

Assuming there is a suitable location for the evaporator ( out door unit ). There is of course the possibility of the evaporator being inside the property and ducts to link it to the air outside the house. For many flat dwellers this would be the only option if retro fitting an ASHP.
 
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Assuming there is a suitable location for the evaporator ( out door unit ). There is of course the possibility of the evaporator being inside the property and ducts to link it to the air outside the house. For many flat dwellers this would be the only option if retro fitting an ASHP.
Screenshot_20220109-123638.jpg


Welcome to the future.
 
To be honest for high rises like that, I'd not recommend individual air source, a building like that would be far better suited to a communal/district heating system with one commercial plant area and heat metered hot water feeds to the individual buildings.

There are blocks where the ASPHs are fitted on the roof and fed down into the flats which works well as far as keeping them out of sight, access, and maintenance costs, the ones pictured there are likely air to air units which domestically we rarely use in this country.
 
Ok. Brilliant post
So my question i need to ask my self then is not "can a ASHP replace my Gas boiler" (i had thought this to be a technical NO), but "should i replace my Gas boiler with a ASHP?".

That's a tall wall to climb over tbh. A cost/benefit analysis tells me that there may be no payback. The running and maintenance costs won't be such that i will save enough over the lifespan of the system to cover the install cost. It is likely that the lifespan cost of a ASHP is higher than an equivalent lifespan cost of simply replacing my gas boiler for new.

But that assumes the energy environment is stable and it isn't. Gas is only going to get more expensive and governments are only going to make it less economical.

So, on a new build house, where high efficiency is built into the fabric of the building and install costs integral to the price of the building, one can see that a ASHP system is viable. Even if lifespan cost is still greater than Gas discounting install and retrofit costs, you can still justify it with the reduced carbon footprint.

However, retrofitting a ASHP into a existing house has a potential for a big premium for building and infrastructure costs and, requires a significant change in the way the building is operated. Whilst you are future proofing your energy costs, that infrastructure premium is big.

It's not easy to shoehorn the equipment into an existing house either. My better half already has a running battle with the space used by the radiators in the house. I'm constantly frustrated by my family who seem to think nothing of burying them behind furniture, beds, cupboards etc and then complaining about rooms being cold, whilst having windows and doors constantly opened.

Then i have the psychological issues of heating in the house where people want to "feel," the heating.

Im not sure how the engineering of low temp ASHP's engages with the vagaries of the human being.

If you a buying a new build complete with ASHP, UFH, etc, you are buying into the heating system as well. You have a different mindset to that of a house with std Gas heating.

It's like retrofitting a classic car with an electric power unit. It works but....

I think for me its going to be a case of changing to a ASHP because i have to due to energy costs or government intervention, rather than changing over because it's a current net benefit to the household.


It's an expensive job, and the cost of install is unlikely to fall significantly. Fitting an ASHP while the preffered option for CO2 reduction, is out the reach of many on cost basis at the moment. Reinforced buy the governments lack of any sort of real ambition and policing of previous eco schemes and building standards means that the best thing any homeowner can do is work on heating system upgrades and insulation over time.

I advise the difficult to convert folk on natural gas to look at keeping gas boiler for the time being, but work towards a heat pump ready system. That is, upgrading radiators to suitably sized ones when decorating rooms, increasing sizes of accessible pipe work whenever floors coverings are up for new laminate etc. Draught proofing and insulating where possible so that when it comes time to potentially fit a heat pump, disruption is mostly avoided and install cost has been spread out over years of system upgrades.

Building regs in England change this year so state that all new heating systems should be low temperature systems designed for a maximum flow rate of 55 degrees. But that only legally applies to full new installations, and there will be the usual amount of training and policing of the new rules (somewhere between zero and f all)
 

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