Any doubters out there?
- Thread starter noseall
- Start date
I agree, wind driven rain in some parts of the country, particularly coastal areas is relatively common. I'm sure that they legislate for such events when setting out regulations and building practices in these locations.
I guess it is us inland folk who are having our properties tested at the moment, with their weaknesses and vulnerabilities becoming embarrassingly exposed.
Time to re-write the reg's I guess.
I guess it is us inland folk who are having our properties tested at the moment, with their weaknesses and vulnerabilities becoming embarrassingly exposed.
Time to re-write the reg's I guess.
Not that sure our regs are much better than yours. I know in Scotland frames are built into recessed jambs for better weather protection.
Cavity walls were introduced in the 1800's on the coast, as rain can get through 9 inch solid there.
You see houses in some countries with eaves that overhang by about 3 foot or more, which must help a bit.
Cavity walls were introduced in the 1800's on the coast, as rain can get through 9 inch solid there.
You see houses in some countries with eaves that overhang by about 3 foot or more, which must help a bit.
I'm pretty sure I read on here that only a certain type of (non-porous) brick is permitted on exposed coastal buildings vulnerable to wind driven rain.
There were certain types of bricks that BC preferred when I used to work in Brighton, although most of the houses were rendered on the Seafront.
Only thing about non porous is that they send all the water down the wall, and any cracks in the joints take all the water in, whereas more porous absorbs it evenly all over. Known as the overcoat/raincoat efect.
Only thing about non porous is that they send all the water down the wall, and any cracks in the joints take all the water in, whereas more porous absorbs it evenly all over. Known as the overcoat/raincoat efect.
We are undergoing an [almost] perfect storm. a fair bit of rain plus that wind.
In previous posts, there was a very interesting post about rain fall differentiation between Summer and Winter, but it is the wind that causes the penetration into property.
Up here [in the far frozen, wet, windy north] it is imperative that the bricks chosen by the "Designer" are non-porous, we are then into the closed cell plus the available BS tests for same for such bricks.
I have seen hundreds of properties and especially exposed boundary walls constructed from porous brickwork, the immediate result is spalling faces on several / hundreds of this type of brick, causation is rain absorption followed by low temperature's, at times as low as Minus 10 degrees and exceptionally even lower than that.
What I am getting at is that the overcoat idea is a non starter because up here with constant wind and constant rain in winter the brick would fail. Also the actions of very severe frost down to minus 10 degrees C every second or third year will destroy the outer brick work
Cavities are IMPERATIVE a solid one brick thick in the conditions up here are simply not viable gale force winds would simply drive the rain in.
Of interest are the "exposure charts" available from the BRE where Scotland is well within the maximum zones, as an aside the installation of cavity fill is NOT recommended for such exposures? makes you think?
Bottom line is that "designers" and manufacturers will have to rethink the effects of wind blown rain / porosity / frost resilience, why because this event we are a part of WILL re-occur, its the global climate change.
The movement to the South of the Jet stream, from a position north of Scotland to somewhere south of lands End could persist for several years? a lot depends on Sun spot activity.
Then that is just me "star gazing"
Ken
In previous posts, there was a very interesting post about rain fall differentiation between Summer and Winter, but it is the wind that causes the penetration into property.
Up here [in the far frozen, wet, windy north] it is imperative that the bricks chosen by the "Designer" are non-porous, we are then into the closed cell plus the available BS tests for same for such bricks.
I have seen hundreds of properties and especially exposed boundary walls constructed from porous brickwork, the immediate result is spalling faces on several / hundreds of this type of brick, causation is rain absorption followed by low temperature's, at times as low as Minus 10 degrees and exceptionally even lower than that.
What I am getting at is that the overcoat idea is a non starter because up here with constant wind and constant rain in winter the brick would fail. Also the actions of very severe frost down to minus 10 degrees C every second or third year will destroy the outer brick work
Cavities are IMPERATIVE a solid one brick thick in the conditions up here are simply not viable gale force winds would simply drive the rain in.
Of interest are the "exposure charts" available from the BRE where Scotland is well within the maximum zones, as an aside the installation of cavity fill is NOT recommended for such exposures? makes you think?
Bottom line is that "designers" and manufacturers will have to rethink the effects of wind blown rain / porosity / frost resilience, why because this event we are a part of WILL re-occur, its the global climate change.
The movement to the South of the Jet stream, from a position north of Scotland to somewhere south of lands End could persist for several years? a lot depends on Sun spot activity.
Then that is just me "star gazing"
Ken
tony1851,
In terms of our conversation, you appear to be having an argument in an empty room.
I'm sorry to be stepping on toes but i'm at a loss to find and follow a coherent discussion from you following on from your original question to me:
"What were the ignorant practices"?
I answered you with a list.
You next four queries shot all over the place without once referring to my reply or developing any rational argument in terms of the reply.
I later asked you a question. Perhaps you would care to reply?
Your next post was once again off the page - in terms of the original question and my responses.
Perhaps, all the off page things you have to say are correct but, maybe, they should be in another post if you wish for your argument to retain coherence.
I used Thatcher as an aside to exemplify a point.
Parker Morris was peaking in influence in 1968 when it was the bedrock of the Ministry of Housing's groundbreaking series of publications.
Thatcher killed Parker Morris in the 1980 Local Gov Planning & land act.
In terms of our conversation, you appear to be having an argument in an empty room.
I'm sorry to be stepping on toes but i'm at a loss to find and follow a coherent discussion from you following on from your original question to me:
"What were the ignorant practices"?
I answered you with a list.
You next four queries shot all over the place without once referring to my reply or developing any rational argument in terms of the reply.
I later asked you a question. Perhaps you would care to reply?
Your next post was once again off the page - in terms of the original question and my responses.
Perhaps, all the off page things you have to say are correct but, maybe, they should be in another post if you wish for your argument to retain coherence.
I used Thatcher as an aside to exemplify a point.
Parker Morris was peaking in influence in 1968 when it was the bedrock of the Ministry of Housing's groundbreaking series of publications.
Thatcher killed Parker Morris in the 1980 Local Gov Planning & land act.
Ree,
Some of your points I would agree with, others not, and some were open to debate, but your list ran to 19 points, and it would have been time-consuming to respond to each one.
If I am correct, one theme of this thread - and also an issue you noted - was condensation. It's a perennial problem and is not just solved by 'better building practices'. It is as much a function of adequate heating and ventilation - ie how the bulding is used. If people are hard-up and can't afford to heat their houses properly, nor ventilate them, no amount of good building detailing will solve that problem.
Some of your points I would agree with, others not, and some were open to debate, but your list ran to 19 points, and it would have been time-consuming to respond to each one.
If I am correct, one theme of this thread - and also an issue you noted - was condensation. It's a perennial problem and is not just solved by 'better building practices'. It is as much a function of adequate heating and ventilation - ie how the bulding is used. If people are hard-up and can't afford to heat their houses properly, nor ventilate them, no amount of good building detailing will solve that problem.
Just wait until climate change shuts down or significantly diverts the Gulf Stream.
According to my atlas the UK is about on the same latitude as Newfoundland, and the southern half of Hudson Bay.
It'll go a long way to improve the problem
Assuming that groundwater, river, flash and tidal surge floods may be a much commoner feature of the UK weather for the forseeable future, as well as much more prolonged wetter weather, what sort of construction methods should be considered to safeguard the housing stock for the future?
What sort of retrospective measures should be adopted to preserve the existing housing stock from former times?
What sort of retrospective measures should be adopted to preserve the existing housing stock from former times?
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