Applying grouping factors..

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Just curious, looking at a recent new build electric install (lots of bunches of wires) - what sort of distance / percentage of circuit length do wires have to be installed in a bunch before grouping factors are applied? I presumed it was like cables passing through insulation - if they pass through a wall or joist for a short distance and are bunched then heat can dissipate without needing to derate - but if more than a certain length of bunching occurs then derating is necessary?
 
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Just curious, looking at a recent new build electric install (lots of bunches of wires) - what sort of distance / percentage of circuit length do wires have to be installed in a bunch before grouping factors are applied? I presumed it was like cables passing through insulation - if they pass through a wall or joist for a short distance and are bunched then heat can dissipate without needing to derate - but if more than a certain length of bunching occurs then derating is necessary?
Unlike the situation with short runs through insulation, the regs are silent about what should be done if there is grouping over just a short distance (as, for example, is common near a CU). Purists might take that silence to indicate that any length of grouping should be treated as if it extended for the entire cable run. However, I'm sure that most people would not regard that as sensible, and the impression I get is that grouping is very rarely taken into account at all in the design of domestic (and quite possibly many commercial) installations.

Kind Regards, John
 

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