Are argon filled windows worth the extra?

[happypeter]

Hi,
I have about 6 standard double glazed panes that need replacing (just the glass), my local window place offers argon filled glass which is 20% more expensive. Should I bother?
Ta

 

[Iwilldoit]

Not sure about 20% extra cost but I have replaced some and from memory argon filled was standard I think like it was the base standard product. I also opted for black glazing bars and coated glass pilkinton something or other which all add up to a better u value.
And it all made a big difference to the old blown units that they were replacing. Used to get a lot on condensation inside in the winter and now nothing. And the glass on the inside almost feels warm now in the winter. The old units were knackered though.

 

[crank39]

If it's a free upgrade then have it but otherwise no, the argon will have all leaked out within 4 years

 

[happypeter]

Used to get a lot on condensation inside in the winter and now nothing.

Ok thanks, condensation is a real issue in winter so that would be a big plus!

 

[Iwilldoit]

Ok thanks, condensation is a real issue in winter so that would be a big plus!

Not saying its the argon but could be a factor with all the other elements, coating and thermal glazing bars instead of the old silver ones. Just to be clear I do not mean Georgian things its juts the separator that gos around the edge between each pane comes in white or black

 

[martygturner]

Just because a window maker says its filled something with argon does not make that window any better at its job of insulation. Lots use the argon as a means of protecting the the cheaper end of the low e coating on the inside of the external panel. If you are fitting low e glass then it should come with argon fill as standard not as an extra cost.

You can specify different glass units for different aspects, North facing shaded road facing - high R factor - triple argon panel. South facing direct sunlight room, standard with reflective solar gain protection.

The issue is that window companies seldom design a solution, the just shove in what makes the biggest profit.

 

[crank39]

Just because a window maker says its filled something with argon does not make that window any better at its job of insulation. Lots use the argon as a means of protecting the the cheaper end of the low e coating on the inside of the external panel. If you are fitting low e glass then it should come with argon fill as standard not as an extra cost.

You can specify different glass units for different aspects, North facing shaded road facing - high R factor - triple argon panel. South facing direct sunlight room, standard with reflective solar gain protection.

The issue is that window companies seldom design a solution, the just shove in what makes the biggest profit.

Low e is fitted to the inside face of the internal pane

 

[ronniecabers]

Just because a window maker says its filled something with argon does not make that window any better at its job of insulation. Lots use the argon as a means of protecting the the cheaper end of the low e coating on the inside of the external panel. If you are fitting low e glass then it should come with argon fill as standard not as an extra cost.

You can specify different glass units for different aspects, North facing shaded road facing - high R factor - triple argon panel. South facing direct sunlight room, standard with reflective solar gain protection.

The issue is that window companies seldom design a solution, the just shove in what makes the biggest profit.

If replacing old units ( pre 2002 ) they wouldn't have had Argon as std. So in that case technically it is an upgrade, whether the person quoting includes it for an extra fee or offers it as std is up to them. Argon filled units most certainly do make the sealed unit ' better at its job of insulation ' , as its a heat retention gas ... Xenon gas would do an even better job ( admittedly both will ony be there for about 5 years lol ).
You say window companies seldom design a solution and just shove in what makes the biggest profit ... clearly you have no idea of costings in the window industry and especially not the sealed unit manufacture side of things! Triple Glazing was one of your solutions ? Well how does that work in any unit thickness less than 28mm? Even then at 28mm it is not as efficient as a double glazed unit. So to fit triple glazing you'd need to replace the frame... which incurrs greater costs and potentially a greater profit margin, as triple glazed is seen as a premium product.
To say that Argon is used to protect the cheaper end of the low e coating , is again rubbish... ALL modern upvc comes with a MINIMUM of low e coating AND argon gas... that's the minimum that is allowed by building regulations but replacement of anything prior to 2002 is not required and thus extra costs would be involved for the manufacturer to put Argon gas in hence the unit is a higher price.

 

[Iwilldoit]

I take it that argon molecules are small enough to find their way out over time without the unit actually being "blown. Is that right

 

[ronniecabers]

It's all to do with how it's sealed ... the argon just eventually seeps out

 

[typonaut]

It's all to do with how it's sealed ... the argon just eventually seeps out

I’ll ask the stupid question: if the argon leaks out within 4-5 years, what is it replaced by?

Obviously the leakage doesn’t result in a vacuum, so ordinary air and moisture will enter, which suggests that the unit is “blown” and needs to be replaced after a fairly short period.

 

[ronniecabers]

Indeed it's replaced by air... very slowly ..sealed units are always leaking a very small amount( whether air filled or argon/xenon filled ) but the unit won't start misting until the dessicant in the spacer bar has reached the end of its life. ( on average 10-15 years but anomalies do happen). All commercial sealed unit manufacturers will be tested regularly ( twice yearly normally ) to check that they are still producing sealed units that will last at least ten years. They will be tested with and without argon gas usually a unit with argon will have minimum of 95% Argon at production
So all sealed unit manufacturers actually have a ' licence ' to manufacture , proving their credibility

 

[crank39]

Yes contrary to popular belief a sealed unit isn't actually sealed, for all intents and purposes yes it is but the actual seal is permeable so whatever is in there will eventually sleep out and what's outside will seep in, this is something DG companies won't tell you mainly I guess because they don't want to scare you off to another company, it's different on here because we aren't trying to sell you anything, we tell it how it is

 

[Iwilldoit]

but the unit won't start misting until the dessicant in the spacer bar has reached the end of its life. ( on average 10-15 years but anomalies do happen).

There has to be a better product that does the job. All that energy to make the glass and its landfill after 10 years.
On the leaking argon - window companies do not tell you that either.
When I replace some of my units I noticed that the packers were sort of balanced on a raised section within the frame so in my mind only the outside glass was supported whilst the inside was free (er) to drop and so break the seal
So when I fitted the new ones I first packed out the gap with half a packer lengthways then the main packer was supported on its full width.

 

[crank39]

I doubt that any glass goes to landfill nowadays, it gets crushed and recycled in fact you need glass to make glass