The previous post reminded me of the nightmare I had getting a mate to buy a Skoda Octavia. She wouldn't have any of it till she met up with her posh mates in Islington who said what a good rep the car had! she didd buy it and ismade up!!!. I've got a Daewoo Leganza with full leather, leccy everything and a jolly fine looking car (design was commisioned by Jaguar but rejected in favour of actual new shape), cheap as chips to buy as long as you're not worried about 'cred' of the badge on the bonnet.
Are you a badge snob?
- Thread starter glocko
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I wouldn't say I am a badge "snob", seeing as I drive a Vauxhall Astra. However, on my current experience I wouldn't buy a Skoda. Not so much because of the stigma of the badge (I love to get lots for my money) but because I have been in both minicab Octavias and also got a lift in a private Octavia estate diesel. I really did think the quality was a bit shoddy. Obviously it has to be, VW group are hardly going to say "let's take this £30K Audi and sell it for £13K with a Skoda badge!". But I would still take one for a test drive when I trade my car in, I might like it.
I would never buy a Ford Focus: I have driven over 30 1.6 and 1.8 Focus', both hatchback and estate. I thought they were all underpowered, and rather strangely the estate seems to handle better in my opinion. I heard someone say that the Focus handled really well. Well, if it does then the Vauxhall Astra must be the best handling family hatchback around because mine drives ten times better than any Focus I have been in!
I would never buy a Ford Focus: I have driven over 30 1.6 and 1.8 Focus', both hatchback and estate. I thought they were all underpowered, and rather strangely the estate seems to handle better in my opinion. I heard someone say that the Focus handled really well. Well, if it does then the Vauxhall Astra must be the best handling family hatchback around because mine drives ten times better than any Focus I have been in!
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Well, that's just the joke Adam! I talked to an Audi dealer a few months ago in a supermarket carpark (he was getting sandwiches for the crew) and had come in an entry level A4 TDI estate.
We joked about me buying a poor man's Audi, but he said he had great respect for Skodas and didn't see the point in paying double for an Audi.
He could not believe the kit my elegance comes with. At the time it was the most highly specced Elegance you could buy, I had all the extras like park sensors and cruise.
The engine is 110 - VW wouldn't give Skoda the 130 at the time, but have relented now, but apart from that the A4 would be twice the price of mine with the same kit - and just look round one when you see one parked up and look for all the bits that are identical to Audi - mirrors, interior bits and bobs and if you look under the bonnet of a Skoda all the mechanics are identical too, down to the VW/Audi stamp on them!
Can't complain with mine - a rattly sunroof is about it - fixed under warranty.
The reason I got interested was because in Christmas 2002 I got in an Octavia taxi and always love to talk cars to the people who drive them day in day out. This one was on a Y plate and had 125,000 showing.
Asked the driver if anything had gone wrong. "Only the rear window winder that broke" he said, "because some drunk slammed the door with it and it snapped!"
"Paid anything out other than normal maintenance?", I asked. "Not a bean" said he. And that , my friends, is good enough for me!
I'm currently on 18K, and I still smile like a loone when I drive it. Reckon it'll see me out!
Saw one in Auto Express the other month - 1/2m miles!! WOW!
We joked about me buying a poor man's Audi, but he said he had great respect for Skodas and didn't see the point in paying double for an Audi.
He could not believe the kit my elegance comes with. At the time it was the most highly specced Elegance you could buy, I had all the extras like park sensors and cruise.
The engine is 110 - VW wouldn't give Skoda the 130 at the time, but have relented now, but apart from that the A4 would be twice the price of mine with the same kit - and just look round one when you see one parked up and look for all the bits that are identical to Audi - mirrors, interior bits and bobs and if you look under the bonnet of a Skoda all the mechanics are identical too, down to the VW/Audi stamp on them!
Can't complain with mine - a rattly sunroof is about it - fixed under warranty.
The reason I got interested was because in Christmas 2002 I got in an Octavia taxi and always love to talk cars to the people who drive them day in day out. This one was on a Y plate and had 125,000 showing.
Asked the driver if anything had gone wrong. "Only the rear window winder that broke" he said, "because some drunk slammed the door with it and it snapped!"
"Paid anything out other than normal maintenance?", I asked. "Not a bean" said he. And that , my friends, is good enough for me!
I'm currently on 18K, and I still smile like a loone when I drive it. Reckon it'll see me out!
Saw one in Auto Express the other month - 1/2m miles!! WOW!
B
Big_Spark
I drive a Vauxhall Vectra B 2.0GSi (Modified) and I have a 2.5 V6 Mondeo with all bells on order. I have done the badge thing, and you are no better off in the real world.
I have had Audi and Mercedes, both great cars, but the maitenance costs are not warranted.
I have had Audi and Mercedes, both great cars, but the maitenance costs are not warranted.
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Yeah, agreed FWL.
With my Skoda you get VAG parts screwed together very well, with Skoda servicing costs, lessened even more by services up to 30K apart.
It's very easy to get beyond the badge when you know you're getting a virtually identical car at bargain bucket prices...
I've lost count (seriously) of the number of clients who just glance briefly at the motor and say "I'm paying you too much if you can afford an 02 Audi".
Have a look at the JD power survey in this week's Auto Express. Skoda and the Octavia do stonkingly well.
Taxi drivers too. They know their stuff as they do humungous mileages. How many Octavias do you see with P plates on?
My brother-in-law (ex if you see what I mean!) had a diesel Sierra back in 86 on a D, he took it to a million, and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen the (fully Ford stamped) service books!!
With my Skoda you get VAG parts screwed together very well, with Skoda servicing costs, lessened even more by services up to 30K apart.
It's very easy to get beyond the badge when you know you're getting a virtually identical car at bargain bucket prices...
I've lost count (seriously) of the number of clients who just glance briefly at the motor and say "I'm paying you too much if you can afford an 02 Audi".
Have a look at the JD power survey in this week's Auto Express. Skoda and the Octavia do stonkingly well.
Taxi drivers too. They know their stuff as they do humungous mileages. How many Octavias do you see with P plates on?
My brother-in-law (ex if you see what I mean!) had a diesel Sierra back in 86 on a D, he took it to a million, and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen the (fully Ford stamped) service books!!
I think there will always be people who will sooner go for an entry VW Golf than a top spec Octavia (despite them being basically the same car). But I will stand by my word that I will test drive a Skoda when I come to trade in the Vauxhall. I guess the insurance must be cheap as well, after all, if the badge is sniffed at then who would nick it?
A great example of a car with more to show than its badge is the Ford Mondeo ST220. My dad currently owns one and does a lot of miles in it. The engine is a 3 litre 220bhp V6, originally destined only for the Jaguar. But the story goes that the Ford engineers in Germany stuck the lump in there to see how much power the chassis would take and it drove so nicely they productionised it. It absolutely kills any GTi you shake at it, does 75 mph in second gear, and pushes you back in your seat when you accelerate from 100mph. All this for £22K or so. Only problem is, cruise control is not an option so your licence is at the mercy of how lightly you can press on the throttle! Oh, and I believe there is an estate version too.
A great example of a car with more to show than its badge is the Ford Mondeo ST220. My dad currently owns one and does a lot of miles in it. The engine is a 3 litre 220bhp V6, originally destined only for the Jaguar. But the story goes that the Ford engineers in Germany stuck the lump in there to see how much power the chassis would take and it drove so nicely they productionised it. It absolutely kills any GTi you shake at it, does 75 mph in second gear, and pushes you back in your seat when you accelerate from 100mph. All this for £22K or so. Only problem is, cruise control is not an option so your licence is at the mercy of how lightly you can press on the throttle! Oh, and I believe there is an estate version too.
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My Octavia is Gp 9.
Touché sir, however this is a Catch 22 situation: the money you save on insurance could be going towards speeding fines and petrol. But how can you get speeding fines in a sensible car?!
I would rush out for a Skoda diesel if VW ported over their 5 litre V10 308bhp diesel, as seen in the Phaeton and the Toureg. Oh, and it would have to cost about £30K less than it does in the VW cars.
I would rush out for a Skoda diesel if VW ported over their 5 litre V10 308bhp diesel, as seen in the Phaeton and the Toureg. Oh, and it would have to cost about £30K less than it does in the VW cars.
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Believe me Adam, the 110 does really well in my car. But if you want more, go for the 130 6 speeder. Or better still, wait till June or thereabouts, because a new Octavia comes out then ish.
Even better the superb (stretched passat, saloon only I'm afraid) has a
160 V6 TDI......but an rrp of 25K. Boo!
It's also in VED band D my Octavia is in Band A - cheaper Tax Disc....
Even better the superb (stretched passat, saloon only I'm afraid) has a
160 V6 TDI......but an rrp of 25K. Boo!
It's also in VED band D my Octavia is in Band A - cheaper Tax Disc....
B
Big_Spark
My Mondeo gets delivered in Two weeks, then it goes to a "special garage" to have a couple of Mods done to it..like more BHP, via a full race Induction Kit, chipped EMS, changed Valves, Cam-shafts, rocker cover and gaskets, 305mm fully Ventilated Discs, 6 pot calipers, Race Pads all round and reinforced brake lines with an uprated hydraulic actuator. Oh and a high pressure turbo
The work is being done by a Ford Sport garage so all work falls within the normal Ford Warranty
By the time I actually recieve it in about 5 weeks time it will be good for between 280 and 305 BHP. The Garage guarantee 280 BHP, but think it may be as high as 305 BHP, they'll know for sure once the work has been completed.
In total all the this work is costing some £6500.
It will be my track day car and a nice runabout
The work is being done by a Ford Sport garage so all work falls within the normal Ford Warranty
By the time I actually recieve it in about 5 weeks time it will be good for between 280 and 305 BHP. The Garage guarantee 280 BHP, but think it may be as high as 305 BHP, they'll know for sure once the work has been completed.
In total all the this work is costing some £6500.
It will be my track day car and a nice runabout
Which tuner are you using? I only ask as my Dad asked me about the possibility of getting his previous V6 Fords supercharged (both Cougars) so I guess it is only a matter of time until he considers having his ST220 fettled!
So if we scale this up, 305BHP for a 2.5: That would be about 370 for the 3.0 Duratec!
High pressure turbo and aggressive cams? I hope you are planning on wearing a neck-brace. The extra 50bhp of the standard ST220 feels a lot faster than the standard 2.5 V6, so I would be interested to see what your 100 extra bhp would do for it.
I do wonder though, it might have been cheaper for you to start with an ST220 as the larger capacity would give you the same power output with less work, and should be more reliable. Still, making it easy isn't the point of tuning is it!
So if we scale this up, 305BHP for a 2.5: That would be about 370 for the 3.0 Duratec!
High pressure turbo and aggressive cams? I hope you are planning on wearing a neck-brace.
The extra 50bhp of the standard ST220 feels a lot faster than the standard 2.5 V6, so I would be interested to see what your 100 extra bhp would do for it.I do wonder though, it might have been cheaper for you to start with an ST220 as the larger capacity would give you the same power output with less work, and should be more reliable. Still, making it easy isn't the point of tuning is it!
B
Big_Spark
I'm using a company called Courtenay Sport
They were recommended by Ford Motorsport when I contacted them for a certified performance specialist (to go with the [should be] certified driver)
They are based in North Walsham in Norfolk.
These Guys are the dogs dangly bits when it comes to making your car go faster
They also did the modifications to my current chariot, the Vectra B 2.0ltr..but I didn't own it then.
I don't think the performance difference is as much as you think between the 2.5V6 and the ST220....although the 3.0 V6 sounds sweeter, it is not as amenable to tuning as the 2.5 as it is the 2.5 that Ford have modified already.
I think the output of the 2.5V6 in road trim is about 210BHP..but without actually looking it up I could be wrong there. I do know that Ford have undertuned the cars for road use. Originally Courtney suggested that perhaps all I needed was the EMS remapped and the airflow and exhaust "tweaked" as that would give me about 35-40 BHP above the on-the-road power output..but I asked what I could get for 6.5K on a brand new car with only delivery mileage, they suggested that for that money I could easily make the car have the power output of a touring car version but it would take a couple of weeks to get the power output teaks to that level and consistant for road use.
Can't wait..the GF is already dreading it, she reckons I'll look like the Chessire Cat for 6 months after I get hold of it..and she could be right too
Regarding cost, I paid as much for the 2.5V6 as an ST220 costs due to all the toys and extras I added to the package, but I got a great deal from a Dutch Importer and saved, in real terms, nearly £5K, that is why I don't mind spending the difference, and a little on top, on making it go a LOT quicker.
They were recommended by Ford Motorsport when I contacted them for a certified performance specialist (to go with the [should be] certified driver)
They are based in North Walsham in Norfolk.
These Guys are the dogs dangly bits when it comes to making your car go faster
They also did the modifications to my current chariot, the Vectra B 2.0ltr..but I didn't own it then.
I don't think the performance difference is as much as you think between the 2.5V6 and the ST220....although the 3.0 V6 sounds sweeter, it is not as amenable to tuning as the 2.5 as it is the 2.5 that Ford have modified already.
I think the output of the 2.5V6 in road trim is about 210BHP..but without actually looking it up I could be wrong there. I do know that Ford have undertuned the cars for road use. Originally Courtney suggested that perhaps all I needed was the EMS remapped and the airflow and exhaust "tweaked" as that would give me about 35-40 BHP above the on-the-road power output..but I asked what I could get for 6.5K on a brand new car with only delivery mileage, they suggested that for that money I could easily make the car have the power output of a touring car version but it would take a couple of weeks to get the power output teaks to that level and consistant for road use.
Can't wait..the GF is already dreading it, she reckons I'll look like the Chessire Cat for 6 months after I get hold of it..and she could be right too
Regarding cost, I paid as much for the 2.5V6 as an ST220 costs due to all the toys and extras I added to the package, but I got a great deal from a Dutch Importer and saved, in real terms, nearly £5K, that is why I don't mind spending the difference, and a little on top, on making it go a LOT quicker.
A few years back Courtenay were making Novas with 2l engines, and if I recall they even did a Corsa V6 conversion using an Omega 2.5 engine.
The 2.5 V6 is definitely 170bhp, I had many arguments with my father over this one so did a lot of research into it! They did a special 190bhp one a few years back. But who cares about the standard power when you are taking it straight to a well-respected tuning firm? Will you declare the mods on your insurance?
I think with the toys you have spotted the chink in the ST220 armour: no optional extras! Lack of cruise control coupled with the performance means keeping it legal could be difficult at times.
The 2.5 V6 is definitely 170bhp, I had many arguments with my father over this one so did a lot of research into it! They did a special 190bhp one a few years back. But who cares about the standard power when you are taking it straight to a well-respected tuning firm? Will you declare the mods on your insurance?
I think with the toys you have spotted the chink in the ST220 armour: no optional extras! Lack of cruise control coupled with the performance means keeping it legal could be difficult at times.
B
Big_Spark
AdamW said:The 2.5 V6 is definitely 170bhp, I had many arguments with my father over this one so did a lot of research into it! They did a special 190bhp one a few years back. But who cares about the standard power when you are taking it straight to a well-respected tuning firm? Will you declare the mods on your insurance?
According to the information I have in writing, from Ford, standard power output is 152 kW, and as there are 743W to 1HP, that transposes as 202 BHP.
Remember, they uprated a lot of their engines last November by changing the Engine management units and the injector valves, that could easily account for an extra 12 BHP, in real terms it is only an increas of about 6% overall, nothing spectacular. Also I think it has slightly more output that the older model as it has the 6 speed manual box.
Regarding the Insurance..got no choice, to not do so on what will be a £30K car would be crazy, you only need some nob drive into the back and right it off, and they will use the mods as an excuse to not pay out.
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