Arguing with Vaillant about boiler problem!

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Hi all. Recently posted in here about a problem 10-year-old Turbomax 242E. It heats the radiators just fine (even with the radiator dial set to "3", we have to turn the individual radiator thermostats right down or you end up practically burning yourself on them if you touch one!

However, the hot water is hopeless. Over a period of half a year or so, we've had to turn down the hot water taps more and more to little more than a trickle to get water out at a reasonable temperature - it then takes half an hour to fill the bath and must be horribly uneconomical on fuel...

Couldn't find a local plumber/boiler engineer who sounded confident about taking on the boiler, so had a bright idea and contacted Vaillant. They seemed very helpful at first, telling me in an email that they did a fixed-price callout and repair for £215 inc. Vat and "almost" all parts (apart from heat exchanger and expansion vessel, which would cost approx £100-£190). They said if they were called out and it wasn't something they could fix for £215, they'd tell us and if we decided not to go ahead, we'd have to "just" (!) pay the £82.50 call-out fee. they also tried to upsell us to a Homeserve policy for £24.99 per month which would include the £215 "fix" as quoted.

My wife then called their service line and explained the same symptoms to their call operative, who immediately said it sounded like a "system" problem and not a boiler problem and that if an engineer was sent out, it would likely be abortive and simply cost us £82.50 to be told they couldn't fix it... Furthermore, they then told us we'd have to "find someone local" who could help us fix the system as they couldn't help! Er, excuse me, there's something wrong with the damn boiler and it's your flaming boiler, waddya mean you can't fix it!?

With the benefit of hindsight, I'm starting to wonder if this is all a great scam by Vaillant to get engineers in houses, say, "ooh, it's your heat exchanger" or, "you need your system flushing mate" and then telling you that rather than costing £215 it'll be £500 extra or something, just hoping that you'll agree and go ahead as they're already there and so on...

...or maybe I'm just being cynical...

How does one go about finding a boiler engineer in Leicestershire who actually knows something about Vaillant combi boilers and can be trusted to actually diagnose the problem rather than pull our trousers down!?
 
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Valliant are at least being honest, I suspect it is a boiler problem but the boiler is YOURS not Vaillants. You would not phone up Ford to get them to call and repair a ten year old ford Escort. Try BG they do a fixed priced call out. Have you tried any local gas engineers. Ask if they repair Combi's before you agree to a visit.
 
Fair point, although I didn't expect them personally to fix it, rather recommend an engineer in the area that knows a combi boiler from a combine harvester...

I just rang their premium rate help line and they told me in about 30 seconds flat that it's almost certainly a diverter valve issue and that is covered in the £215 call out.

Is £215 a good price for a diverter valve repair or would I be better off going elsewhere, do you reckon? I don't know how mych work is involved in the repair so I have no idea if that is a reasonable price or not! If it's a 30 minute job, I'd say it was damn good money for them to be making!
 
Is £215 a good price for a diverter valve repair or would I be better off going elsewhere, do you reckon? I don't know how mych work is involved in the repair so I have no idea if that is a reasonable price or not! If it's a 30 minute job, I'd say it was damn good money for them to be making!

A large amount of your posting seems to be about the potential costs involved. You then seem to say that £215 is expensive!

You seem to have totally ignored the cost of the new diverter valve which is about £120 !!!

The engineer has to get to you and that takes considerable time on the congested roads.

When solicitors charge £300 per hour for YOU to go to THEIR office then boiler repairs seem cheap to me in comparisom.

You only say you are in the county and do not give any indication of where! We cannot drive miles for a small job!

In London we would charge about £210 to replace the diverter valve and service the boiler if that helps you.

Tony
 
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Hi all. Recently posted in here about a problem 10-year-old Turbomax 242E. It heats the radiators just fine (even with the radiator dial set to "3", we have to turn the individual radiator thermostats right down or you end up practically burning yourself on them if you touch one!

However, the hot water is hopeless. Over a period of half a year or so, we've had to turn down the hot water taps more and more to little more than a trickle to get water out at a reasonable temperature - it then takes half an hour to fill the bath and must be horribly uneconomical on fuel...

Couldn't find a local plumber/boiler engineer who sounded confident about taking on the boiler, so had a bright idea and contacted Vaillant. They seemed very helpful at first, telling me in an email that they did a fixed-price callout and repair for £215 inc. Vat and "almost" all parts (apart from heat exchanger and expansion vessel, which would cost approx £100-£190). They said if they were called out and it wasn't something they could fix for £215, they'd tell us and if we decided not to go ahead, we'd have to "just" (!) pay the £82.50 call-out fee. they also tried to upsell us to a Homeserve policy for £24.99 per month which would include the £215 "fix" as quoted.

My wife then called their service line and explained the same symptoms to their call operative, who immediately said it sounded like a "system" problem and not a boiler problem and that if an engineer was sent out, it would likely be abortive and simply cost us £82.50 to be told they couldn't fix it... Furthermore, they then told us we'd have to "find someone local" who could help us fix the system as they couldn't help! Er, excuse me, there's something wrong with the damn boiler and it's your flaming boiler, waddya mean you can't fix it!?

With the benefit of hindsight, I'm starting to wonder if this is all a great scam by Vaillant to get engineers in houses, say, "ooh, it's your heat exchanger" or, "you need your system flushing mate" and then telling you that rather than costing £215 it'll be £500 extra or something, just hoping that you'll agree and go ahead as they're already there and so on...

...or maybe I'm just being cynical...

How does one go about finding a boiler engineer in Leicestershire who actually knows something about Vaillant combi boilers and can be trusted to actually diagnose the problem rather than pull our trousers down!?

I've nothing for or against them, but your suggestion that a £multi-million set up such as Vaillant, (which has sold many million appliances world-wide for over a hundred years) is out to scam you, coupled with an expectation that 10 years of system wear & tear (inc. a boiler designed for a 10 year life) can be eradicated in a service call makes me suspect it might be you rather than your boiler that local engineers don't want to take on.
 
How does one go about finding a boiler engineer in Leicestershire who actually knows something about Vaillant combi boilers and can be trusted to actually diagnose the problem rather than pull our trousers down!?

You could try saying exactly where you are located and see if anyone on here can suggest anyone in your area.

I know a very good boiler engineer in Hinkley ! He used to be the technical manager for Ariston!

Tony
 
Hi guys. Thanks for the responses. Didn't mean to tweak any tails here, I asked the question about cost as I have no idea of the cost of parts and the length of time to fit them. I know about computers and techie things, not boilers... I take on board the point about travelling out and charging rates, but this is why I'm on the board asking questions, rather than telling you a week after the event and having you laugh at me for paying £215 for a £100 job!

So it sounds like it's probably worth paying them the fixed price unless I can find someone good nearby. I'm based near Enderby, not far from Junction 21 of the M1 so maybe the Hinckley-based chap wouldn't be a bad shout?

Got my wife to run some tests at home:

Running hot water does not make the radiators heat up.

She turned up the thermostat in the hall to make the heating kick in. The thermostat clicked, the boiler didn't start up. She turned on the hot tap, the boiler came on. She turned off the hot tap, the boiler half turned off, then kicked in again and the heating came on and the radiators got warm.

Turning the boiler to "hot water only" mode seemed to marginally increase the temperature of the water.

I spoke to the Vaillant help line again and they said probably the diverter valve, put quite possibly also the heat exchanger. I asked her how it could be the heat exchanger if the radiators got so hot and she was stumped, but said that usually a failed diverter valve would mean absolutely no hot water at all.

Sorry if I appeared to be being a prat in my earlier comments, that wasn't the intention!
 
I agree with her! Its likely to be the secondary heat exchanger!

Pity she did not know what she was saying! I suppose they have a matrix chart to suggest possible causes of faults but not being technical she will be unable to get much further than just reading out what they are given.

I was very impressed when I called Heatline last week as I spoke to a real engineer who could tell me all the different ways to got the plate HE out of their boiler. I thought there might be a trick!

Whatever you do you have to remove something else first, either the gas valve or the diverter block. And they do that once free under the guarantee when its blocked!

Tony
 
So (forgive my total numptitude on this - I know nothing...) how can it be the heat exchanger if the heat exchanger is what warms the water up and the radiators get hot enough to burn you? Is the water flow rate considerably less with the heating? Does the heat exchanger warm it only slightly (like the hot water from the tap) first time round, then as the increasingly warmer water circulates through the system, it is always heating it up from a slightly warmer temperature and therefore eventually manages to get the water hot? Whereas the water from the tap only has one run through and one shot to be warmed up?

That's probably complete baloney, but makes sense to me!

So... they say that a heat exchanger change will cost between £100 and £190 on top of the £215 original call out. Reasonable, based on approximate parts costs?

If anyone can recommend me a good combi boiler man based on where you know I now live, that would be great!

Ta.
 
You have totally misunderstood how the boiler works. There are two HEs!

We would clean the secondary HE for about £136 in London or fit a new one for about £200.

If you want the contact details of the Hinkley man then you will have to email me from my profile.

Tony
 
What has your Hinckley man done to upset you, Tony?
 
What? Me? What have I done?

Anyhow - couldn't find out how to send you an email through the profile so just posted a comment instead!

Cheers
Carl
 
What has your Hinckley man done to upset you, Tony?

Nothing as far as I know?

Do you know something that I dont? He has been described as one of the top ten combi engineers in the country!

I have to be very careful as he is a little sensitive about having his number given out and I am not sure if the number I have may be his "personal" number.

Anyone should email me, just search for my name or on Agile or look in the profile. I am easy to find! Google, Yell, BT, Thompsons and lots of other places.

Tony Glazier
 
He has been described as one of the top ten combi engineers in the country!

By who?

How is it measured?

Is there some sort of combi repair olympics?

You once said that "You" was in the top ten also.

Who are the other eight lucky ones?


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: and :rolleyes:
 

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