Artex, lots of Artex

[paulsouthport]

Hi all
Just bought a house, built 1953, ex council house.

There is a lot of textured coatings, on ceilings and walls, it's like a huge, ugly meringue. As part of the process of bringing the house into the 21C I intent (want) to get rid of the textures.

Here is a ceiling:

And here is the hall wall where some damp has caused the outer paint layer to bubble off, exposing the material under. It's hard to see in the photo, but the material is off white, about 3mm deep and contains lots of sparkles, like glitter.:

Another ceiling, I haven't looked too closely but it looks like a heavy woodchip paper:


My concerns are the artex looking materials. Does the glittery effect appear in asbestos carrying artex?

cheers!
Paul

 

[footprints]

They all look like classic Artex to me including the "woodchip" one, they look professional so very likely to be genuine asbestos Artex rather than a DIY product. Testing is the only way to be sure though.

 

[paulsouthport]

OK, I'll get it tested.
Thanks!

 

[kevinsmbuk]

I have scraped and skimmed mine. White asbestos is minimal in ceilings, even spoke to a asbestos specialist who even admitted he would happily re-board his house if it had artex rather than calling his company in! I did however mask up when knocking the high spots off.

 

[paulsouthport]

Thanks for the info. For the time being I'm going to leave the ceilings, patch over the dodgy sections then come back to them when I can get everyone out the house for a few days.

 

[Keithmac]

We're in 1950's properties, next door is council owned and been refurbished.

There was asbestos removal van there for a full day which is worrying!, didn't get chance to speak to the bloke though.

Haven't seen anything in ours that looks dodgy though.

 

[paulsouthport]

Hopefully you're all good, it's a pain in the rear.
1950's vandals with their lumpy, dangerous paint...

And it's flipping ugly!

 

[Keithmac]

Our kitchen was knocked though before we bought it so looks like all new ceilings were fitted.

First picture reminds me of a mates dads house when I was a kid, had exactly the same on livingroom ceiling!.

Good look, are you just goint to plaster/ board over the top or take it all down?.

 

[paulsouthport]

Not decided yet, the ceilings I can (just about) live with, maybe skim a couple of them. The walls though, they need to come down. Not least because I'm going to be doing some rewiring, lighting etc. and I don't want to have to think about what I'm digging/drilling into.

 

[Keithmac]

Fair bit if work then!.

Only thing I've come across is asbestos rear gutters in ours which are being replaced.

Saying all that I've been repairing motorcycles and cars for mearly 20 years so probably breathed a fair bit in, hey ho!...

 

[Deleted member 174758]

.....even spoke to a asbestos specialist who even admitted he would happily re-board his house if it had artex rather than calling his company in! I did however mask up when knocking the high spots off.

Something to think about, then: a good friend of mine, probably the best old school "tosher" (decorator) I ever knew who could do all the specialist stuff like graining, marbling, etc died from mesothelioma a few years back after more than 40 years in the trade. The medics reckoned his problems stemmed from all the hand dusting of Artexed walls and ceilings (without a mask, obviously) that he'd done over his working life. Towards the end it was a slow, horrible death. Maybe people wouldn't have such a cavalier attitude towards asbestos if they had watched someone die from exposure to it. Overboarding is OK providing the asbestos is damped down and not disturbed (i.e. broken, sawn, drilled, etc). Disturbing it by "knocking off the high spots" isn't the cleverest thing to do - even if you have worn protective overclothes, shoes and gloves (because otherwise the fibres can still cling onto your clothes and hair) and disposed of them correctly before decontaminating yourself properly (you did take those precautions, didn't you?). With asbestos-related illness killing some 1 in 17 joiners born in the 1940s (Source: HSE) maybe a bit more thought about how to approach potential asbestos-bearing substances is required

 

[Keithmac]

I've heard stories in the past of children swweping it off the outside windowsills and making "snowballs" out of it, no wonder there's so many deaths with it.

Plus the wives washing asbestos covered overalls etc..

How does MDF fibres compare?.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I've heard stories in the past of children swweping it off the outside windowsills and making "snowballs" out of it, no wonder there's so many deaths with it.

One of the real horror stories was Cape Asbestos Products at Old Town, Hebden Bridge. Cape was a firm that between 1939 and 1970 contaminated the area around their works so badly that even today, after demolition of the mill and a clean-up, has still got development restrictions in place (i.e. no new houses or other buildings in the vicinity of the old works, agicultural land unfit for food production). There are other sites in the Rochdale and Leeds areas, and elsewhere (includingh London), which have similar restrictions.

How does MDF fibres compare?.

Nowhere near as bad. Asbestos has very small fibres which lodge in the lung and can cause the following (often terminal and incurable) illnesses:

• Mesothelioma
• Asbestosis
• Other Diseases: kidney, ovarian, lung and laryngeal cancer can all be caused as a result of asbestos exposure
• Diffuse or Widespread Pleural Thickening
• Asbestos-Related Lung Cancer
• Pleural Plaques Causing a Restrictive Defect on Lung Condition

Against that long term exposure to MDF dust could potentially give rise, in extremis, to:

• Pneumoconiosis
• Lung Cancer

Although it is far more likely to result in Allergic Rhinitis (something I am aware of personally, although in my case hardwood dusts are far more likely to have been the major contributors). Duration of exposure is not really much of a factor in asbestos-related diseases. A single exposure can potentially result in illness. On the other hand it does appear to be a major contributory factor with respiratory problems caused by MDF - so you need to machine or sand a heck of a lot of it without using dust extraction or dust masks to cause long term harm and even then it is only to the operator, and not his family, who can be affected by waste carried in his/her contaminated clothing. Also MDF products, unlike asbestos-containing products, are not really a problem as the users do not sand or saw them continually (and they don't contain toxins)

Asbestos-related diseases often do not occur until many years following exposure to asbestos, meaning that people are still only just suffering as a result of the exposure they experienced thirty, forty or even fifty years ago. Problems caused by fine dusts such as MDF make themselves far more obvious far earlier.

Or in other words MDF, whilst potentially harmful, is a lot less harmful than asbestos, and in a different way. In fact a lot of what is said about MDF is little more than an urban myth as is that oft quoted "fact" that MDF is banned in USA.m It isn't, but that doesn't stop the ignorati trotting out the same carp every time the issue is discussed

 

[Keithmac]

Hebden bridge is only an hour away from us in York, plus the carriage works could possibly have used a fair bit of it!.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Indeed. Worse, though, was steam pipe lagging and the spray asbestos used in boiler rooms, etc. which all deteriorates over time and starts to shed fibres. In the past I installed Asbestolux fireboards and asbestos linings in airing cupboards - both tasks where the sheet material was sawn by hand (and where you went home every day white from head to foot from the dust). I can't recall anyone back then (1970s) being overly concerned, although the thought is always there that one day, maybe, it will get me.... I have no such worries over MDF dust, especially having done the necessary work to get import certification into the USA and having had inspection (by the HSE) of workshop premises I used to run where we machined tons of the stuff every week.