Bad plumber = leak and more. WC connector help please.

[wilco88]

Hi all,

We had the plumbing re-done in our property about 4 months ago. Turns out the plumber wasn't going to win any awards. Nice bloke though.

Anyway, discovered a leak from the hidden cistern. He hadn't connected the inlet properly and it slow dripped down the side of the cistern and on to the floor, under the vinyl flooring. We had to rip it all up.

In doing so we had to take the toilet pan out, which is when we discovered he had used the wrong size (diameter) pan connector for the pan in question. He has also used an 18mm offset connector to make up for the fact that he had set the soil pipe at the wrong height. So the waste effectively has to travel uphill to get to the soil. Only 18mm granted, but still not ideal. This was also leaking.

When it comes to sorting out this mess i want to make sure that i can see that the pan connector is connected properly at the pan end. I thought i'd use a flexible connector, but as you can see from the photos, there is no room to do this. The soil doesn't move any further back and i cant get a shorter flexible connector.

There is no access behind the paneling to be able to get at the connector to see if it leaks when re-connected. And it is very hard to know if it is on properly.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how i can make this work?

I don't want to get the plumber back because he'll just kick up a fuss.

Thanks.

 

[muggles]

Pan connectors are a standard size, there's no such thing as the wrong diameter, unless you've bought some obscure brand / unbranded loo with an odd size spigot.

I prefer long rigid pan connectors for BTW WCs but you need to sort out the incorrect fall before you do anything else. If you don't, you'll always get problems

 

[Madrab]

If the stack inlet is too high then unfortunately you only have 2 options, raise the floor or drop the stack inlet.

 

[CBW]

Pan connectors are a standard size, there's no such thing as the wrong diameter, unless you've bought some obscure brand / unbranded loo with an odd size spigot.

Not entirely true mate, Perhaps the plumber used an old pan mks1 multikwik, as opposed to new pan mks2 multikwik?

 

[BlueLoo]

My uneducated thoughts:
Cut a large access panel where the toilet is supposed to sit.
Do this so that you make up a cover panel to fit over the large hole allowing you access in the future whilst looking reasonable. Otherwise you will have to remove the panelling entirely which looks like a big job.

Once you have access, look at how the entry to the stack has been sat. If you are lucky, you might get that 18mm of movement on the slip joint.
If you are unlucky, then you can remove the entry to the stack and just knock back the top by an inch.
Failing that, you could measure the height of the toilet outlet from the floor and go shopping with a tape measure to see if you can find one that is a better fit.

I'd do the access panel anyway. Toilets need maintenance and you will be trying to get back intot his some time in the future for repair and maintenance.

Don't think this has to be a big problem, just work through the issues.

Best of luck.

Oh, and remove that plumber from your tradesman lists

 

[wilco88]

Not entirely true mate, Perhaps the plumber used an old pan mks1 multikwik, as opposed to new pan mks2 multikwik?

Spot on. That's exactly what he used!

Spigot size is 95mm so he's way off using a 108-114mm.

Pan connectors are a standard size, there's no such thing as the wrong diameter, unless you've bought some obscure brand / unbranded loo with an odd size spigot.

I prefer long rigid pan connectors for BTW WCs but you need to sort out the incorrect fall before you do anything else. If you don't, you'll always get problems

Nothing obscure/unbranded about this:

https://victoriaplum.com/product/clarity-back-to-wall-toilet-with-seat#&gid=1&pid=1

There are plenty of different size spigots.

 

[wilco88]

Pan connectors are a standard size, there's no such thing as the wrong diameter, unless you've bought some obscure brand / unbranded loo with an odd size spigot.

I prefer long rigid pan connectors for BTW WCs but you need to sort out the incorrect fall before you do anything else. If you don't, you'll always get problems

Yup, the fall is the crux of the problem and I probably cant ignore it without it coming back to bite me later down the line.

 

[Madrab]

Silly idea using that old Multikwik, possibly had it lying about. Most new pan connectors are fundamentally universal and will fit most spigot sizes made these days, apart from the MK01. He should have realised the minute he fitted it. Dufus!!

One thing in your favour is the panel design. I'd be looking to use a multitool to cut straight down the slots in that paneling and remove a section to get to the soil pipe. Making good wouldn't be that hard with a bit of filler. Does the soil pipe turn left or right after it disappears in there or does it head straight back out the wall? Cant see from the pics

 

[wilco88]

He was a semi-retired old (ish) guy, so maybe it just slipped his mind.......

I've learnt my lesson when it comes to selecting plumbers.

Do you mean cut a section/panel out exactly behind where the toilet goes? Or cut next to it and try and make it look like an access panel?

It goes left as we look at the picture.

 

[CBW]

Post a photo if you can get a decent one, of the top where there’s a big enough hole, might just be that the soil pipe can be lowered

 

[wilco88]

Post a photo if you can get a decent one, of the top where there’s a big enough hole, might just be that the soil pipe can be lowered

Will do when home.

I assume that if i put the correct sized connector on, with the 18mm offset, it is still not a good idea to try and force water/waste to go uphill slightly?!! Physics and all that! It'll catch wont it, and water will always be present in the connector flange......

 

[Madrab]

No, I mean cut straight down, top to bottom down the panel line. A multitool has a 1mm blade and the cut will be the same size as the grooves. If you do it clean and straight then once it's back on, the groove filled and painted I bet you'd hardly notice the difference, if at all.

I'd measure the stack entry height against the height of the soil pipe in the pic and see what fall there is and if any vertical movement could be achieved.

I'd never play with a soil pipe at anything even remotely uphill.

 

[wilco88]

My uneducated thoughts:
Cut a large access panel where the toilet is supposed to sit.
Do this so that you make up a cover panel to fit over the large hole allowing you access in the future whilst looking reasonable. Otherwise you will have to remove the panelling entirely which looks like a big job.

Once you have access, look at how the entry to the stack has been sat. If you are lucky, you might get that 18mm of movement on the slip joint.
If you are unlucky, then you can remove the entry to the stack and just knock back the top by an inch.

Hi BlueLoo.

What do you mean by "knock back the top by an inch"?

Thanks.

 

[BlueLoo]

Hi BlueLoo.

What do you mean by "knock back the top by an inch"?

Thanks.

Lower the tee/junction point to give you a free fall.

 

[wilco88]

Lower the tee/junction point to give you a free fall.

Found a photo of the connection to the existing stack. It's a mechanical coupling like the one in the link below. The old pan was located to the left of the room so the connection was a straight one. Cast came straight in to the room and connected to pan. The plumber cut this back and connected to it with the below.

https://www.drainagesuperstore.co.u...e-ductile-coupling-with-continuity-100mm.html

Don't think i have much choice but to stick with the existing connection height.

Thanks though.

I'm now thinking i'll put a plinth under the loo which will raise it enough to allow a straight pan connector rather than 18mm offset connector that the 'plumber' installed.