Blocked basement bath

[Oakwood]

Hello everyone,

We have a bathroom in our basement, which we almost never use. The toilet is fitted with some sort of device that makes a grinding noise every time it is flushed.

Yesterday evening, I heard the toilet grinding away - despite not having been used, so i went downstairs to investigate.

Tried flushing the loo, this made the device stop (temporarily), but it only pushed some water up through the bath plug hole. Similarly, when running the sink tap, it drained ok, but only up through the bath plug-hole. Then the grinding device kicked in again.

Tried plunging the bath for almost 45 minutes and managed to dredge up a lot of junk, but the water didnt drain away and the grinding device still periodically started and stopped.

Left it and went to bed, however, the situation hasnt changed at all this morning - water still in the bath, grinding device starting and stopping.

Plus, I have noticed that a sink on the ground floor immediately above the basement bathroom has water coming up to and just above the plug hole. Have checked all the other sinks/baths/showers in the house, and they all seem fine.

Any ideas?

Our washing machine is in the basement and we need to clean some stuff, but fear that if i start it up, i could have a basement full of water...!!

Many thanks in advance for your help!

 

[seco services]

more likely a blockage in the waste pipe from the saniflo.

 

[Oakwood]

Thanks for the swift response Seco Services.

Is there a DIY method of unblocking the Saniflo (which I presume is the device making the noise under the toilet?), is it a job for a professional to flush it all clear?

Cheers

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

You can have a go at DIY, but its not a pleasant job.... Be prepared for the outlet from the macerator (Saniflo) to be full of minced human waste etc...

With the current weather conditions and the fact you have another appliance that isn't draining, it could be that a common waste pipe used by both appliances has frozen. I would inspect the arrangements outside prior to dismantling the Saniflo outlet!

 

[Oakwood]

Thats a good shout - particularly as it may avoid getting up to my pits in unpleasantness...!

I suspect a pipe somewhere must be blocked somehow, as we never really use the basement loo (certainly havent recently), so I guess it would be odd for it to have become blocked with waste now? Plus as you say, the sink immediately above the basement bathroom is blocked as well.

Nevertheless, I have pulled the fuse out of the saniflo's socket to stop it working in vein and blowing itself up.

I fear the main waste drainage pipe is blocked, possibly frozen. If it is right at its base, after all other ancillary pipes feed into it, then presumably it will gradually fill up with water, rising up until all sinks, toilets, etc in the house cant drain away - with the ground floor sink that is already blocked being first on the way...

Will inspect the outside and report back - thanks for all your help, must get the sinks and toilets working again before family arrive for Christmas..!!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Unlikely the 110mm soil pipe has frozen, but I suppose not impossible in current conditions. Most likely to be the waste pipes, even a slow dripping tap will soon allow a plug of ice to form.

If you have an iron pipe then you can be more adventurous with heat, anything plastic, hairdryer is safest bet. If using it outside though a RCD device to prevent electric shock is a must.

 

[Oakwood]

Afternoon all,

I have had a thorough inspection of the outside and all the pipes. The main soil pipe seems to be fine as all other toilet and sink drain pipes, that visibly join this main pipe higher up the building, appear and sound like they drain OK (thank goodness).

The last pipe that joins this main pipe right at its base is the soil pipe from the ground floor toilet - where the sink is blocked. Joining this soil pipe, as far as I can tell is the sink drain from the same room (which isnt draining), plus all the drains from the basement bathroom - which are presumably normally pumped up and away by the saniflo. I guess this is what it was continuously trying to do, but couldnt due to some sort of blockage.

NB: I have pulled back the boards to have a look at the Saniflo unit, it is a BEST model, and to avoid it burning out (hope it hasnt already), I have pulled out the fuse from its socket.

So it would seem that there is some sort of blockage somewhere in this ancillary soil pipe - before it joins the main pipe. There was quite a lot of ice on the outside of this pipe, caused by the moisture from the boiler vent frreezing, so maybe despite its thickness the inside had frozen?

I cleared away all the ice, tapped the pipe gently with a hammer, poured hot water over it, etc.

Sadly, despite having got the comfort from working out that the sinks, toilets, etc on the upper floors are all seemingly OK - I am no further forward with sorting out the blockage to clear the ground floor sink or the basement bathroom.

Any further thoughts - or is it simply a job for the professionals? can anything be done if it is simply frozen?? If its a normal blockage, what would they do - some sort of power-flush?

Thanks again for all your help!!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Now looking possible its frozen, what material is the pipework made from? Heat is the key, its getting it warm enough to melt any ice plug, without melting a plastic pipe or an iron pipe absorbing the heat before it melts anything inside....

The pro's will either rod or jet with high pressure water to shift a blockage. Although if its frozen, neither of these options are any use, they can only warm it up somehow to melt the ice.

 

[Oakwood]

Perhaps strangely, I would be sort of glad if it is just frozen as that would hopefully mean its not something more serious, like a blown sani-flo, which would require much more work.

All the pipes are plastic, so perhaps simply pouring a few kettles of water (and catching most of the water under-neath with a bucket), wouldnt have done the trick?

I did try and create a bit of a heat trap by fashioning a few card-board boxes around the pipe on the outside of the house including the vents for our two boilers, whilst still leaving enough ventilation to allow the hot air to eventually escape.

However, only minutes afterwards the boiler shut-down, presumably due to over-heating. So had to re-position the boxes - now they only cover the pipe to try and at least act as a bit of a jumper to protect them from the elements and the condensation caused by the vents themselves.

Any other top tips of de-thawing an external plastic pipe? I could run a mains cable out the window and use a hair-dryer?

Once again - thanks for your help, keen to get the house working as we have a house load of family arriving shortly (although all from my wife's side, so perhaps this could put them off...?!)

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

You shouldn't under any circumstances block or alter any flue, it could be potentially dangerous. Boiler will draw the air needed for combustion from adjacent to where it exhausts, if its being starved of air by drawing back in its own fumes then Carbon Monoxide is produced. This may well have been the reason for it shutting down.

Hairdryer (and a lot of patience) may do the trick but i'd advise you use a RCD device if using electricity outside.

 

[Oakwood]

of course youre right - it was a stupid idea, born form desperation, although i didnt include the air-inlet vent in my box, it was still very silly and I have taken it down now.

Think I might get a condenser boiler fitted in the new year - the amount of energy going out in to the cold is staggering, plus Im becoming increasingly convinced that the same hot air is ironically freezing the pipes as the moisture being pumped out is causing a lot of ice.

What is an RCD device?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Depends on your current boiler, if you've got something half decent there now, you'll regret swapping it for a condenser unless your current boiler is drawing its pension. (Also condensers blow out a plume of steam - more water! Secondly, they have a condensate drain, plenty of those frozen up at the moment, stopping the boiler from working.....)

R.C.D. - Residual Current Device or a 'PowerBreaker'. Cuts supply off if there's a problem, i.e. stops you getting a shock...... May be one fitted on the household electrics, but if you're unsure its better having two than getting an electric shock......

 

[Nige F]

Dont waste your money on a condenser - those wastes are frozen because the gunk that lays @ the bottom is frozen - the water then builds above . Just let it all alone and enjoy Christmas . Long as the saniflo isn`t going to run youre fine - then clean pipes with a DIY sanisnake in the spring/summer