Boiler pressure loss

[ionlyask]

Boiler type two month old Veissmann 100 W combination

System is depressurising by about 0.5 bar a day. No apparent leaks in pipe work radiators etc but as usual there are areas that can’t be seen.

To see if problem is fully or partly with the boiler I closed flow and return valves when water cold and pressure 1.5 bar. Pressure reduced by 0.25 bar overnight. No apparent leaks when valves closed. However when returning the valve on the return to open, water sprayed from the spindle. It sealed again when valve in fully open position.

No leaks apparent at the PRV expansion outlet. Pressure when central heating on is 2 to 2.25 bar

Fitted the boiler myself. Gas connections and commissioning done by Corgi engineer.

Fitted to an old system but chemical and mains flushed beforehand and Spirovent dirt cleaner fitted and chemical inhibitor used. Circulation water seems to be clean.

Do the symptoms I have described indicate a fault in the boiler, if yes what might it be before I contact the manufacturer and ask for a warranty repair. The commissioning engineer is, quite reasonably, unlikely to see it as a problem for him to resolve

 

[Softus]

Fitted the boiler myself. Gas connections and commissioning done by Corgi engineer.

It's an illegal installation then.

The commissioning engineer is, quite reasonably, unlikely to see it as a problem for him to resolve

I disagree - I would expect him to be happy to solve it, if you paid him.

 

[ionlyask]

Don't see that the installation is "illegal" under the regulations. All Gas work, connections at boiler and commissioning done by qualified engineer. I hung the boiler and carried out standard plumbing work to system pipework. I am "competent" to do this

I appreciate that my/any engineer will be prepared to check the boiler at cost. But if the boiler is faulty, and that is what I am trying to determine, there should be no cost to me since it is under warranty. It would then be the manufacturers responsibility. The manufacturer insists that warranty claims will only be considered if any work is carried out by its approved engineer.

Incidentally I tried to check if the boiler was faulty by isolating it from the rest of the system because of advice on this forum. I have been in touch with Veissmann in the last dy or two. It says that such a exercise is useless since a pressure loss (in this case 0.25 bar in eight hours) will be caused by even quite small reductions in water temperature. They say that if there was a leak at the boiler this would be easy to see or it show itself at the over pressure overflow. This seems logical but on the other hand, the fact is there dfoes appear to be water loss/ contraction within the boiler that causes a big pressure loss.

What about the condensate drain, is there the possibility that any water leak within the boiler may be draining this way?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Well get Veissman to send one of their chaps out and see what they say.

If you have a leak the chances are it is on your pipes rather than the boiler.

 

[bengasman]

well, you might not see why your installation is illegal, but every proper RGI will. there is little you can do as you are just as liable to prosecution as the chap who "commissioned" it.
this is the risk of doing diy at a level above what should be done.
it is unlikely that the boiler itself is faulty, so you will have to find an installer willing to do the job

 

[Softus]

Don't see that the installation is "illegal" under the regulations.

You not seeing it doesn't change the fact that it is.

I hung the boiler and carried out standard plumbing work to system pipework. I am "competent" to do this

In that case why did someone else make it look as though they hung it?

 

[Dan Robinson]

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck it is a sodding duck.

How many people need to tell you the same thing?

 

[swidders]

Don't see that the installation is "illegal" under the regulations.

You not seeing it doesn't change the fact that it is.

I hung the boiler and carried out standard plumbing work to system pipework. I am "competent" to do this

In that case why did someone else make it look as though they hung it?

If the op had done the wet pipework and left the tails ready for HE to supply and install boiler, would this have been legal?

 

[Dan Robinson]

For this type of work the RGI has to mount the boiler drill and fix the flue and run the gas.

A Part P persion needs to do the wiring.

The DIY'er can do everything else.

 

[swidders]

For this type of work the RGI has to mount the boiler drill and fix the flue and run the gas.

A Part P persion needs to do the wiring.

The DIY'er can do everything else.

Thanks - just seeking clarification. Am not gas fitter and therefore have not, do not and will not touch it.

Want to replace my own system and would have preferred for me to hang boiler and do water connections since trust my own pipework more that other's (pardon my immodesty here). But this would not be legal? Even under his direct supervision?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Some boilers (like our Intergas) have a pre-piping jig. You can hang that and pipe up to it.

 

[swidders]

Some boilers (like our Intergas) have a pre-piping jig. You can hang that and pipe up to it.

Am torn between vaillant and worcester - do you know if they have such a jig?

 

[ionlyask]

See link below to relevant legislation on gas safety.

Bear in mind also all work on the gas side was carried out by a registered Corgi engineer.

However much you might want it to be otherwise nothing in the regulations requires you to be registered with CORGI or HSE to work on a heating system -even on the gas side. The exception is when you are doing work for gain.


http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/98245102.htm#3

 

[Dan Robinson]

No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so

How can you prove competence?

This argument has been had sooo many times. Nobody accepts the other side's argument. And for the likes of you nothing happens until you end up in court because of a tragedy.

What flux did you use by the way?

 

[swidders]

No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so

How can you prove competence?

Precisely - there are H&S regs which clearly detail requirements of appropriate training and observed experience. Hence why I don't touch and nor should the op

What flux did you use by the way?

May sound petty to the op, but it proves the point - the devil's in knowing and applying the details.