Bristan Shower / Salamander Pump Not Working

[romablade]

Hi,
My plumber fitted two new showers - a Bristan Colonial Thermo mixer with a fixed Victorian Can shower head and a Triton Mini Petita Thermo Mixed with a flexible hose fitting.

After installation the water pressure, especially on the Bristan was very poor. Our plumber convinced us to install a shower pump so I bought a Salamander RSP50 1.5Bar Twin Right Shower Pump.

The old showers were never the fastest in the world but perfectly adequate in terms of water flow.

The plumber fitted the pump and added a Salamander S Type Flange (22mm) to the hot water tank. He also renewed the whole pipework from cistern to pump and the pump to showers (which are fitted at floor level in the airing cupboard on the first floor - the showers are also on the first floor - below and beside the tank).

The showers work well when engaged, but the Bristan won't start the pump unless we trigger it by turning on the other Triton shower. When you turn on the Bristan, there's no water coming through at all until the pump is started - not even a trickle.

The plumber messed around with the plumbing, added new valves and vents etc but to no avail.

I read on the Bristan FaQ that a Negative Head might be required.

Can anyone help as I just seem to be pouring cash into a money pit at the moment...

 

[warmadmax]

Is the Bristan's shower head or feeding pipework near to the ceiling or fed through it?

if its too close to the level of the cold water cistern, you'll have no head of water to start the pump, as it's a positive head one it needs natural flow through the shower for the flow sensor to pick up and start the pump.

as it's fixed you've not got many choices really.
think you'll need to either:
a) raise the cold water cistern in the loft or
b) lower the fixed shower head
if you want to keep the current pump.

if you can send the pump back, do it and get a "universal" one, (negative head as you've read), these have vessels on them.


http://www.salamanderpumps.co.uk/Default.aspx?PageID=89
lists salamander's negative head twin impeller shower pumps.

install guide here : http://salamanderpumps.co.uk/WebResources/Documents/Installation_Guidelines_Oct2011_Issue14.pdf

 

[romablade]

Thank Warmadmax. The shower head is about a foot from the ceiling, but the pipework feeding the valve is about waist height. The cold water cistern is about 75-80cms above the shower head (not the 100cm that's recommended but the plumber seemed to think that as it was a overly large water tank, it should be OK).

The pump is in the airing cupboard at floor level, almost immediately below the cold water cistern in the loft.

However, we've tried taking the shower arm and head off so, in theory, the water would just gush out of the valve. However, only the cold water trickles out, no hot and the pump still doesn't engage.

I swapped over the two showers we have and the one with the flexible hose works in both situations (the shower head is about the same height as the fixed one) and the fixed one doesn't work in either bathroom.

Plumber seems to think the hot water valve on the shower valve is faulty, Bristan say they'll swap it so will give that a try but I'm not convinced. THink I may need to swap the shower for a flexible one.

 

[warmadmax]

Just to rule out a possible, you have made sure the cold and hot are into the right sides of the mixer / tried it back to front?

if it's a long run, I wouldn't expect much flow out of it, as you've in theory got "0.06bar" of head from 600mm, even less once you take pipe resistances into it.

It's less than the stated minimum operating pressure of the Bristan,
If replacing/repairing the Bristan doesn't work,
Easiest solution might be to ditch the Bristan and get another Triton from what you've said?

 

[romablade]

Thank mate...

Spoke to Bristan and dismantled the shower valve as they suggested. Valve in the hot water elbow completely jammed - needed poke with an allen key to free it. Re-fitted it all and it worked fine for the first three attempts but then stopped again - apparently jammed again...

Bristan helpdesk also suggested the cartridge might need replacing as 'they often sit on warehouse shelves for months and get bunged up'. Maybe swapping for a Triton might be a good idea!!!

Will send it back and get a replacement..

Thanks for helping though...

 

[reynoldscopy]

Hi, I work as Salamander and was interested by your experiences. Some thoughts we hope will help. The possible cause for the pump not activating unless the second shower is activated could be due to the Bristan colonial shower valve being too restrictive and not allowing the correct flow rate through the pump to activate the shower.

Please carry out a natural flow test on the shower:

1 Turn the pump off electrically

2 Turn the shower valve to fully cold and hold a measuring jug under the outlet. The flow has to deliver 1 litre in 30 seconds.

4 Turn the shower valve to fully hot and hold a measuring jug under the outlet The flow has to deliver 2 litres in 30 seconds.

These are the flow rates that are required to activate the pump. If you don’t have that, you’ll need to install one of our esp100cpv shower pumps. These pumps work on a pressure drop instead of a flow rate, so your problem would be solved.

Please let me know if this helped.
Big Malc, Salalmander Pumps.