Building service vs “The builder”

[iwanttodiy]

Hi guys

I’ve always been curious about the building market. I generally use sites such as mybuilder.com to find tradesmen. Now, when I submit a job I generally get building companies that come back to be and then some of the actual builders who are doing the work.

Now when I’m talking to the actual builder who is doing the work, I generally get cheaper quotes for the works.

Then, I talk to a building service company, and they generally mention what their team will be doing, the number of guys they would have on site etc etc, the quotes are generally significantly higher.

Personally, I like to get technical I generally want to know the ins and outs of what is being done, I do as much homework as I can on the techniques/processes required for the job. When I talk to the actual builder, i feel like I have much more control to provide suggestions, getting my hands dirty on site etc.

When I talk to the building service company, they feel like sales man/project managers etc. It gives me less control, I can put my requirements and those requirements would be related to the guy doing the works. Besides, if the job isn’t that big, why would I need a ton of people on site?

Does anyone have similar experiences, feelings? Am I being overly OTT?

As an example, I wanted a 1.7 meter R.S.J. fitted for a new door. I had building services quote me from £3 - 5k (not including materials) quoting about 3 guys on site needed to do all the works. I had a builder quote me 3 days @ £150 a day. He seemed to know what he was talking about, so we went ahead, and he was happy for me to help. Ended up costing 3 days work the house is still standing. Job total including the admin, SE calcs, door, beam was about £2500. I would have paid £7k total if I went with a team of guys doing the same thing.

 

[TicTac]

This is called real life Kenny, and I'm surprised you haven't worked it out yet; the building services company has more overheads, and needs more profit. If you have more guys on the job, then it'll cost more, so cut out the project manager, and the guy he send to you will always cost less if you pay him direct. You did the labouring on the RSJ, so saved one mans costs. That's how the game works.

 

[iwanttodiy]

Yeh, I realise that. I don’t tend to get a lot of trades men in and I get hands on, on things that I can do myself. One of the reasons is this headache of rooting out this type of service.

Based on my experience its about a 70% building service to 30% builder out there. I am relatively savvy, and would do what I can to question the situation.

It’s like double glazing companies, Everest, Anglian, etc, they come around giving £50k quotes, then you talk to locals etc and it’s £5k. It’s a terrible market. When I first got my house, I got so shocked by my first quotes, it put me off doing anything at all.

Anyway venting over and I guess this type of experience is the general norm out there.

 

[Ian H]

I've never used sites like that but after employing a **** of an architectural technician that I found online I would now only ever use someone that came personally recommended.

I've got a builder coming on Friday, he was recommended by the plasterer, who was recommended by my mate Dave after he did his living room after a flood.

 

[Notch7]

Yeh, I realise that. I don’t tend to get a lot of trades men in and I get hands on, on things that I can do myself. One of the reasons is this headache of rooting out this type of service.

Based on my experience its about a 70% building service to 30% builder out there. I am relatively savvy, and would do what I can to question the situation.

It’s like double glazing companies, Everest, Anglian, etc, they come around giving £50k quotes, then you talk to locals etc and it’s £5k. It’s a terrible market. When I first got my house, I got so shocked by my first quotes, it put me off doing anything at all.

Anyway venting over and I guess this type of experience is the general norm out there.

Forget online trade websites, go back to the fashioned networking.

Neighbours, friends, local builders merchant, electrical wholesaler, house round the corner having an extension.......

 

[opps]

This is called real life Kenny, and I'm surprised you haven't worked it out yet; the building services company has more overheads, and needs more profit. If you have more guys on the job, then it'll cost more, so cut out the project manager, and the guy he send to you will always cost less if you pay him direct. You did the labouring on the RSJ, so saved one mans costs. That's how the game works.

Surely in the OP's scenario- the building services company are just subbing out the whole job and whacking 50(?)% on top. A margin that seems difficult to justify given that all they have done is respond to an online request and then put it the way of a small independent team.

Personally, I would never use those checkatrade-type sites. You have the platform owners taking a slice and, seemingly, "project managers" tendering and taking their slice. If that isn't bad enough, the general public seem to be unable to tell the difference between a really good finish and an OK finish. I have had to correct work done by tradesmen that were nice but not very good. The clients however still gave them 5 stars (because they didn't want to upset them) and then paid me to put thing right.

One example that springs to mind is my GF. She decided that I was too busy to redec our hallway. She used one of those websites. Guy charged £750 labour (£150 per day) to paint our tiny hallway (it's a two bedroom house). The day that he finished, she asked me to sand the walls and woodwork. It took me 7 days. Had he not left everything feeling like someone had added sand, I could have done the whole job in 3 days, and to the standard that she expects.

She gave him 5 stars. He also happened to live 5 doors away.

 

[iwanttodiy]

I do tend to believe that building service companies are just that, they effectively are companies who find the jobs, organise the work force and Wack on a margin 50%+ for their own project management, bringing contractors in, buying materials etc or however much they think they can get away with.

From my experience it’s almost a 5 : 1 ratio of building services to actual workman

 

[limakilo]

These are probably companies that started out with the intention of getting big jobs. Big jobs can be harder to manage, more people, more materiel, more time issues and more money. When the big jobs have gone quite, they go more residential and local. Some start with a big idea, but never take off. To survive they have to downsize.

I don't like it for the reasons mentioned above, and I'm fond of the idea of having a local tradesman who is competent enough to manage his work and required manpower to get the job done as quick, cheap as possible, to a good professional standard. That way I can be confident the blokes doing the work are putting my money in their own pocket, and not some pirate taking money off the pair of us for making an advert.

 

[opps]

quick, cheap as possible, to a good professional standard

There-in lies the problem. Sorry, I am not attacking you but a high quality ("good professional") finish is going to cost a lot more than an "acceptable" finish, additionally you will probably have to wait longer and, unless the tradesman throws a shed load of people at the job, it ain't gonna be fast, and if it is fast it won't be cheap.

 

[limakilo]

There-in lies the problem. Sorry, I am not attacking you but a high quality ("good professional") finish is going to cost a lot more than an "acceptable" finish, additionally you will probably have to wait longer and, unless the tradesman throws a shed load of people at the job, it ain't gonna be fast, and if it is fast it won't be cheap.

That's fine, regardless of the finish though, you still want it as cheap as possible and as quick as possible. I've made the mistake in the past of asking for quick, and cheap, and that's just what I got.