Buying a house - ancient (dodgy?) boiler

[gk141054]

Hi folks,

We are currently purchasing a house and when we viewed we noticed that the boiler looked ancient. We eventually agreed a price and have got down the line, surveys done etc...

Anyway we found from the survey that the vendor a) doesn't know when the boiler was installed and b) has never had it serviced.

We negotiated the price based on the fact that the boiler would need replacing in the near future but hoped it might last us a year or two, or at least get us through winter..... The vendor did list on the F&F form that the boiler / heating system is in working order.... However our solicitor went back and asked them to service the boiler and a gas fire that was also picked up by the surveyor in the lounge.

The vendor has now come back and advised that they are not willing to get the boiler or gas fire serviced which I suppose is fair enough.

However given I am moving my family into a house with an old boiler that hasn't been serviced for years and may not be safe, I went back and advised that I would like to get it serviced at my cost. They have since advised that "the last time we had anyone to the gas supply they basically said don't show us the boiler as we would have to condemn it due to the flue not being up to current regs -even though probably ok."

I am no expert in this but if the flue was the problem, could they not just have that fixed / replaced rather than the whole boiler?

As I mentioned earlier, we knew the boiler was ancient and would need replacing eventually but having paid our loads to buy the house, we didn't plan (or have the funds) to replace it before we even move in. So now I am stuck as to whether we would be safe moving in and using it as it stands.... anyone got any thoughts please?

Thanks

 

[muggles]

You've failed to mention the make or model of the boiler, so it's impossible to give any constructive advice beyond saying that if it's got a suspected flue issue this should be checked prior to using it. Some flues can be replaced, many are now obsolete

 

[75pete]

You could have paid for it to be inspected by a GSafe person. You don't say the make or model of the boiler or where the flue is with regard to its outlet.

 

[simond]

To summarize;

- you've negotiated the price around replacing the boiler.
- but you don't have the money to replace the boiler
- the vendor has told you the flue system is probably dangerous
- you haven't told us what type of boiler, what type of flue
- you would like comfort from unknown people on an internet forum that it is safe to use or can be repaired economically

Do you think, at the very least, you might need to provide some more information? And do you think it might make more sense, bearing in mind what you have been told already, to get someone to physically go and check it over?

The trouble with an internet forum is that whilst you get some clever qualified people on it, you also get dim qualified people, people masquerading as qualified with very loud voices, and finally people with no qualification or experience with a lot to say. It's often difficult to know who is who, particularly if you are not in the industry yourself.

 

[gk141054]

Thanks for your reply. Answers below.


To summarize;

- you've negotiated the price around replacing the boiler. - PARTIALLY CORRECT - We negotiated the price which included an element of "the boiler is old and may need replacing in the near future..... e.g. I (perhaps naively) expect a boiler to last on average about 10 years.... this one is about 20 years old, so although it may last another 10 years, I wouldn't bet on it.

- but you don't have the money to replace the boiler - as you will have read above, we knew it was old and planned to save up for a replacement as first priority. If we scratched around then we could probably fund the replacement immediately, but we didn't plan to do so as we didn't believe it needed replacing immediately.

- the vendor has told you the flue system is probably dangerous - NO, they have told me it is "not up to current regs but probably ok" however see my comment on your last point below anyway.

- you haven't told us what type of boiler, what type of flue - unfortunately I don't recall the make of the boiler and there wasn't a model noted anywhere on the appliance. I'm not sure on the "flue type" as i'm not a gas fitter but from what I could tell it went up an internal chimney (obviously no longer in use for anything else).

- you would like comfort from unknown people on an internet forum that it is safe to use or can be repaired economically - No, not really, see point below. Also the vendor has told me it is ok.... he isn't on an internet forum but that still doesn't mean that I would automatically believe him.

Do you think, at the very least, you might need to provide some more information? And do you think it might make more sense, bearing in mind what you have been told already, to get someone to physically go and check it over? As I mentioned, the vendor wasn't willing to have it serviced so the option would be to get it checked / serviced the day I move in. It seemed strange to me that there was suggestion that someone would condemn a boiler if it was fine, but once I move in if that happens then its too late and my options are very limited, hence asking in advance.

The trouble with an internet forum is that whilst you get some clever qualified people on it, you also get dim qualified people, people masquerading as qualified with very loud voices, and finally people with no qualification or experience with a lot to say. It's often difficult to know who is who, particularly if you are not in the industry yourself. Agree completely.

 

[gk141054]

You could have paid for it to be inspected by a GSafe person. You don't say the make or model of the boiler or where the flue is with regard to its outlet.

Thanks for the reply. The issue is that the vendor isn't happy for the boiler to be serviced before exchange in case the boiler is condemned and the are left with no heating. But obviously I don't want to exchange without knowing exactly what i'm letting myself in for so thought I would get the thoughts from here first.

Not sure on the make/model of boiler, thought I took a pic on my phone but can't seem to find it now. The (flexible flue liner type) flue seems to go up an old, otherwise disused chimney so assume its outlet is at the top of that.

 

[Agile]

The plain facts you state are that you based your negotiations on your own opinions ( even thought you have no knowledge of boilers ).

You also say that although boilers have an expected life of 10 years you somehow expected a boiler, already twice the expected maximum useable age would have continued to work for another year or even two! Many would question your logic there.

What you have NOT said is what stage you have reached in the purchase. If not completed, then why not stop and ask another £1000 reduction because the boiler is not working safely as the vendor previously advised but dangerous and he withheld that information from you. If he refuses then take him to court for your abortive purchase costs!

Tony


PS I think its a Bermuda 552 !

 

[Agile]

- you would like comfort from unknown people on an internet forum that it is safe to use or can be repaired economically - No, not really, see point below. Also the vendor has told me it is ok....

Can you really trust an unqualified person with your safety?

Particularly when he is selling the property?

And when he has never bothered to get it serviced?

 

[gk141054]

- you would like comfort from unknown people on an internet forum that it is safe to use or can be repaired economically - No, not really, see point below. Also the vendor has told me it is ok....

Can you really trust an unqualified person with your safety?

Particularly when he is selling the property?

And when he has never bothered to get it serviced?

No, which is why I said "(the vendor) isn't on an internet forum but that still doesn't mean that I would automatically believe him."

 

[Agile]

I don't see why anyone would ever consider trusting anyone without gas qualifications over the safety of an appliance.

That kind of old appliance needs very careful three stage testing to confirm its safety.

 

[gk141054]

The plain facts you state are that you based your negotiations on your own opinions ( even thought you have no knowledge of boilers ).

You also say that although boilers have an expected life of 10 years you somehow expected a boiler, already twice the expected maximum useable age would have continued to work for another year or even two! Many would question your logic there.

What you have NOT said is what stage you have reached in the purchase. If not completed, then why not stop and ask another £1000 reduction because the boiler is not working safely as the vendor previously advised but dangerous and he withheld that information from you. If he refuses then take him to court for your abortive purchase costs!

Tony

I clearly said a) that I didn't know for certain and 10 years was a guess and b) that my 10 years was an average. So the same way I wouldn't expect my car to last too much past 100,000 miles, there are plenty of examples of cars that go far beyond that. So just because a boiler is over 10 years old or even 20, I wouldn't automatically assume it wasn't safe especially if the vendor tells me it is working fine and chooses not to disclose to me the new information above.

Stage of process - we are pretty much ready to exchange contracts so all surveys and legal work done.

 

[45yearsagasman]

Have you got a camera? Just asking. Saves guesswork and endless rambling posts.

 

[Agile]

Yes, I had understood all that.

But you have made a decision without any significant due diligence. Boilers are not all the same.

An Austin 1100 was not expected to last many years. The last one I saw in regular use was in Bulawayo two years ago. I have not seem any being used in the last 10 years in the UK.

But a quality car like a Riley 1.5 can be expected to be still around and there are apparently about 300 in useable condition and I quite often still see them being driven. I even saw one being used in Bulawayo last Christmas.

So you came to a conclusion about this boiler without even knowing its make or model. Tell anyone here what that is and we can give you an appraisal based on the generalities of that exact boiler.

But it seems you have decided to proceed regardless of the boiler and not to proceed with the request for a reduction of £1000 of the price even though the vendor seems to have intentionally withheld the fact he believes it to be dangerous when he initially told you it was in good working order. I feel he has fooled you and is going to get away with it.

Obviously its up to you to decide what to do.

You seem to have intentionally chosen not to answer the several questions from people here on the model by which we could have given you more honed advice.

That is your choice but I certainly hope you will have it safety checked before using it.

Tony

 

[gk141054]

But it seems you have decided to proceed regardless of the boiler and not to proceed with the request for a reduction of £1000 of the price even though the vendor seems to have intentionally withheld the fact he believes it to be dangerous when he initially told you it was in good working order. I feel he has fooled you and is going to get away with it.

The information has only come to light today, i'm not sure how you can suggest I have decided to proceed without requesting a reduction of £1000 when the ink is still wet on the e-mail that gave me the information....

You seem to have intentionally chosen not to answer the several questions from people here on the model by which we could have given you more honed advice.

I answered that question in my very first reply after the question was asked.... I don't know the make and model. Oh and I mentioned it in the second reply on the matter too!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Well this has been entertaining.