Can I get Away With Following My Plans??

[themarkfletcher]

Hi, I applied for palnning to extend my home. The plans I submitted show the existing and new roof as 45deg. It is actually nearer to 35deg. I would like to add a loft extension under PD and as half of the roof has got to come off anyway it seems the right time to go ahead. If I replace the roof at 45deg as shown on my plans have I stayed within what has been passed? I want to get 2 beds and 2 baths up there and the additional headroom would make one hell of a difference.
All comments appreciated.

 

[tony1851]

1.Assuming your p.d. rights have not been removed, to build the dormer under p.d. you would need to have completed the work as on the plans (ie roof built and tiled etc) first.

2. Was your architect/plan-drawer awake when he did the survey? There is a big difference between 45 deg and 35 deg.

 

[seasickstevie]

Presumably you wouldn't be allowed to raise the highest point higher than is already.

 

[SimonH2]

Presumably you wouldn't be allowed to raise the highest point higher than is already.

The impression I get is that he had planning for a roof that is higher than actually built. Logic says that if he removed the roof and put a new one on that matches what was approved then I can't see how the council can do anything about it. After that he can do whatever PD allows him.

But then, I do get the impression that logic and planning don't fit very well together

 

[themarkfletcher]

Presumably you wouldn't be allowed to raise the highest point higher than is already.

The impression I get is that he had planning for a roof that is higher than actually built. Logic says that if he removed the roof and put a new one on that matches what was approved then I can't see how the council can do anything about it. After that he can do whatever PD allows him.

But then, I do get the impression that logic and planning don't fit very well together

Thanks each, the plans show the roof higher than it is now and the angle at 45. When I added a bedroom a few years ago I kept the plans. This time a different guy did the drawing and used the erroneous plans as the starting point. I am adding an 11 metre wide x 4 metres deep two storey extension so the roof would have to be disturbed anyway. For the sake of another 25k I can go up into the loft. I am being told that I will have to retrospectively submit building regs for the loft and dormer but there are no restrictions on PD. If the roof ends up a couple of courses higher than existing would it be noticed? Probably not. As the guy who drew the plans is also looking after building regs I will be able to add the dormers as if the work had been completed and then subsequently changed even if it means laying a few loose tiles over the roof aperture and then lifting thm again. Planning and logic etc!! Since the local authority made me spend 2k proving the roof was bat free I have lost a lot of respect for their opinions.
One other thing - the additional 25k includes insualtion, plasering, 2 bathroom suites, dormers, stairs and 2 velux windows.

 

[cjard]

As others have said, you cannot do your p d work at the same time as your extension. Given that your replacement roof is much higher than your existing, I'd advise you to build that first and don't throw any dormer holes in just yet. Let the dust settle with neighbours, wait to see if you get any hassle from the council for their error, then do your p d. Nothing stopping you doing works internally in prep but avoid doing visible stuff until your extension is finished and has looked to be so for a while

 

[cjard]

I Note that you haven't actually put any sizes in your post. You may find that your new roof at the steeper angle effectively disables your ability to p d a dormer anyway. Dormers are not permitted if

the cubic content of the resulting roof space would exceed the cubic content of the original roof space by more than -
(i) 40 cubic metres in the case of a terrace house, or
(ii) 50 cubic metres in any other case
For the purposes of Class B “resulting roof space” means the roof space as enlarged, taking into account any enlargement to the original roof space, whether permitted by this Class or not


Assuming your house is detached.. If making your roof 45 degrees increases its volume by 50 cube or more, you're knackered. If it doesn't then it certainly eats into your allowance, so if your new roof adds 30 cube you can only add dormers which increase it by 20 cube

As an example, a7x7 house of 35 degrees roof has a roof volume of 60 cube, at 45 this rises to 85cube limiting the dormer volume to 25 cube. This would still be sufficient to do a 2x2 dormer right the way across the roof.. But we've no idea how big your roof is, and 7x7 is a small house

 

[themarkfletcher]

I Note that you haven't actually put any sizes in your post. You may find that your new roof at the steeper angle effectively disables your ability to p d a dormer anyway. Dormers are not permitted if

the cubic content of the resulting roof space would exceed the cubic content of the original roof space by more than -
(i) 40 cubic metres in the case of a terrace house, or
(ii) 50 cubic metres in any other case
For the purposes of Class B “resulting roof space” means the roof space as enlarged, taking into account any enlargement to the original roof space, whether permitted by this Class or not


Assuming your house is detached.. If making your roof 45 degrees increases its volume by 50 cube or more, you're knackered. If it doesn't then it certainly eats into your allowance, so if your new roof adds 30 cube you can only add dormers which increase it by 20 cube

As an example, a7x7 house of 35 degrees roof has a roof volume of 60 cube, at 45 this rises to 85cube limiting the dormer volume to 25 cube. This would still be sufficient to do a 2x2 dormer right the way across the roof.. But we've no idea how big your roof is, and 7x7 is a small house

Hi Cjard, I hope to be working from the premise that the local authority assume that the roof has always been at 45 degrees, after all they have passed 2 sets of plans over the last ten years that show a 45 degree roof with a house footprint of 11 metres by 7 metres. I do understand that I can only add 50 cubic metres and I expect to be inside that. What I don't fully understand is - is it 50 cubic meteres of usable space or does the allowance include the unusable space behind what will be the loft internal walls?

 

[tony1851]

What I don't fully understand is - is it 50 cubic meteres of usable space or does the allowance include the unusable space behind what will be the loft internal walls?

Its only the enlargement above the roof which counts for the 50m^3.

 

[themarkfletcher]

What I don't fully understand is - is it 50 cubic meteres of usable space or does the allowance include the unusable space behind what will be the loft internal walls?

Its only the enlargement above the roof which counts for the 50m^3.

Sorry Tony, does that include the area behind any plasterboard walls in the loft that are unusable, full of insulation, boarded in etc?. I suspect it is the total volume of the additional roof under the tiles irrespective of how much of it is accessible.

 

[tony1851]

No; the volume behind the dwarf walls going down to the eaves is disregarded, as of course is that part of the volume of the new room which is within the existing roof void.

The easy way to get your head round this is just to go outside and look at your roof. The 50c/m limit applies only to the projecting dormer that you will see above the original plane of the roof.

 

[themarkfletcher]

No; the volume behind the dwarf walls going down to the eaves is disregarded, as of course is that part of the volume of the new room which is within the existing roof void.

The easy way to get your head round this is just to go outside and look at your roof. The 50c/m limit applies only to the projecting dormer that you will see above the original plane of the roof.

Sorry but I haven't explained this very well. I am about to pretty much double the roof size. My 11m x 4m extension includes a new pitched tiled roof above it that joins to the existing roof ridge. That will account for a chunk of my 50c/m allowance. In addition to this I want to add a couple of dormers, perhaps each 1.4m wide on the rear. There will be a flat roof at the height of the existing roof with four hips coming down from the four corners. It will be easier to remove most of the existing roof and use attic trusses. The more I think about it the more I conclude that I might have to apply for planning to get more than the PD allowance.

 

[cjard]

My concern is essentially that one of your neighbours may well notice when you up your 35 degree roof to 45 degrees and could ask the council for clarification.. When thee council says "er.. the roof's already 45 degrees.. ?" things may become apparent that something is awry. I'd still recommend to stall fitting the dormers for a while, if only to make the works less noticeable - youre supposed to have a 45 degree roof already and your plans are for an extension. If you go raising the roof and fitting dormers someone may start to wonder "I thought he was just building an extension.." ?

 

[themarkfletcher]

My concern is essentially that one of your neighbours may well notice when you up your 35 degree roof to 45 degrees and could ask the council for clarification.. When thee council says "er.. the roof's already 45 degrees.. ?" things may become apparent that something is awry. I'd still recommend to stall fitting the dormers for a while, if only to make the works less noticeable - youre supposed to have a 45 degree roof already and your plans are for an extension. If you go raising the roof and fitting dormers someone may start to wonder "I thought he was just building an extension.." ?[/quote]

Understodd Cjard and I may well have no choice due to budgetary restraints. I started the project with limited funds and at the moment I'm managing to keep things going but there will no doubt come a point where an enforced stall occurs. [/i]