Combining PD and planning application.

18 May 2011
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United Kingdom
Sorry if this is a bit long, want to get all the info in up-front and be as unambiguous as I can.


I am in the process of re-submitting a planning application for a front/rear/side extension to a detatched bungalow (the previous one was refused for being too large). I would like to combine this extension with using my PD rights for a loft conversion. This may be a bit of a sneaky way to get around the size limits, but not the first time someone has done it I'm sure.

The LPA would not allow including the loft conversion in the extension application, or submitting as a seperate planning application along with the extension due to the size of the resulting property. Under a planning application it would be one or the other, not both.

I'm not really comfortable discussing this with the Planning Officers at the moment as I'd really rather not show my hand yet ;)

My problem:

The extension I am seeking planning for will include the addition of further roof volume (49m3) and if I were to build the PD loft conversion after this the allowable increase in roof volume would already have been used up by the extension and therefore it would no longer be legal to proceed under PD.

If I were to obtain the Certificate of Lawfulness for the loft conversion first I am convinced they will use this as a reason to then refuse the planning application on the grounds of the overall size increase.

My perceived solution:

My idea is that the Certificate of Lawfulness be obtained on the basis of the original house, prior to the extension being built, but after having received planning for it.

My perceived plan of attack would be as follows;

1. submit planning application for front/side/rear extension
2. receive planning approval
3. submit application for COL based on pre-extension roof dimensions

My question:

My question really is what order should they be built to ensure I don't run into any trouble?

1. I complete the loft conversion before I increase the roof volume with the extension?
2. Do both at the same time?
3. Do the loft conversion last?

My feeling is that option 1 is safest, 2 is a bit dodgy in that it has the risk that the PD will be invalidated by the overall roof volume increase, and 3 may be just asking for trouble.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice you can give.

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I recently had the same issue, we had planning refused for an extension so we came up with a new plan of attack which involved using our PD rights converting more of the roof space and a planning application for the rear of the property.

I took my plans to our local planning department within the council and discussed the best way of doing this, I arranged the meeting with the officer who refused my first set of planning.

I was advised that yes I could do PD along side a planning application and both would be viewed together, or submit the entire development plan as one application stating what was in PD.

So I did this, so on a 9mx7m bungalow we are planning hip to gable conversion on the sides and a 9mx5m rear extension with gable end roof also adding to our loft conversion. So additional internal space of around 120m2.

We have now received planning approval for the entire development. We have lost any future PD rights so any further development will require a planning application but as these will now be FOC.

So might be worth talking to your council, ours have open sessions once a week where you can get an hour with a planning officer to discuss your plans and they can advise you on what will or wont be approved.

Your proposed solution is the correct one. Secure planning consent for the extensions you want to undertake. There is a fair chance that as part of that consent the Council will remove permitted development rights for any further extensions. However, the condition removing permitted development rights will only take effect once you start works on the extensions. You will have a three year period within which you need to start these works, so in the meantime you will be free to undertake any other works under PD, such as the roof alterations you're suggested (assuming of course that you meet the criteria). This is a loophole regularly exploited in my experience.


Rob Duncan
Thanks very much for the replies.

So, just to clarify the response from Rob; Will I need to finish the loft works under PD completely prior to commencing any work on the extension granted planning?

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To date, we have developed a strategy where we have gained planning permission for some extensions all round the property (based on approx 30% increase in the original building floor area) and the approval notice did not restrict any other PD works from being implemented. Following this, we were intending to carry out some PD works prior to implementing the planning permission and then to "part implement" the planning permission following the completion of the PD works. We have gained an LDC for these intended PD works.

However, the local authority are now advising that whichever way we do the works (ie. approved planning works first or PD works first) we will fall foul of the PD restriction under Class B of the PD rights that says the resulting built form of the roof should not exceed 50 cubic metres over the original built form of the roof. Part of an argument that we have put to them is that the PD works are being carried out under Class A (ie. 3m deep two storey extension) and therefore, part B rights are not involved. However, Chelmsford Borough Council take the view that any works under Class A that form a new roof associated with the Class A extension are also Part B work and therefore, subject to the maximum roof volume increase of 50 cubic metres.
That sounds right to me. If you increase the roof volume in the course of a part A extension it counts towards your part B allocation. I believe the description of Part B (which I don't have to hand at present for the exact wording) says that any increase to the roof volume over and above the original volume counts towards your PD allowance.
I think I was in a similar position.

So I got a COL for a hip to gable/rear dormer loft conversion, this conversion is now half completed. The roof volume was increased by 47m3

About three weeks ago I submitted plans for PP for a side ground and part FIRST floor extension. I was told in this way the further increase in roof volume added by the first floor side extension wouldn't matter.

The PP maybe refused for other reasons of course, but the roof volume increase no longer becomes an issue. The LPA actually adviced me that I should do things in this order to achieve maximal increase in the size of my property.

I thank for your response to MMProp question 28/10/11, but can you supply me with a solution or the best way forward.


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