can we change to a combi?

[billy bob]

billybob wrote

Heat pumps work on the priciple that for every 1kW of electricity used to power the heat pump, the heat pump will produce 4kW of heat, the physics are different as the two work in completely different ways

I understand that.
As I have already stated I am talking about LATENT HEAT or to use the more modern term " Enthalpy of Transformation".

Yes, but the latent heat in a condensing boiler has been produced by the boiler within its specified capacity, the boiler simply catches this latent heat and extract most of the heat from it, I say most as some still goes out the flue, but this heat is still from the heat that the boiler produced, the fact that a small amount of this heat escapes out of the flue proves that the boiler has to be less than 100% efficient 95%-98%

 

[Doctor Drivel]

I can't say it more simply..again,...
"Please read the threads. In the European tables you go over 100%. 100% ratings is only for sensible heat. Latent heat is not taken into account up to 100%. When latent heat is clawed back then you go over 100%, to approx 109% max. Got it?"

Find out the difference between sensible and latent heat.

Without trawling through all these pages are you saying that with a condensing boiler you can get more out than you put in?

No. It is the efficiency scalings.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

DD, I don't care what some jumped up penpushing suit in Europe says, if you want to be suckered into that nonsense

That is how they do it. If you don't believe them that is up to you. But when you see efficiencies quoted of over 100%, post back and thank me for telling you why.

 

[Softus]

Without trawling through all these pages are you saying that with a condensing boiler you can get more out than you put in?

I don't see why not - he puts out more drivel than everyone else, collectively, puts in.

Official term: insensible drivel. If only it it were latent.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

billybob wrote

But we are not talking about heat pumps, we are talking about gas condensing boilers.

I am talking about latent heat and the physics involved links the two in my view.

Heat pumps work on the priciple that for every 1kW of electricity used to power the heat pump, the heat pump will produce 4kW of heat,

It does not produce heat it moves heat.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

billybob wrote

a 30kW boiler cannot produce 35kW of energy

Yes but a heat pump can.
For example, if the equipment has a heating capacity of 20 kW at a COP of 3.0, the power input would be:

20 kW/(3.0 COP) = 6.7 kW

The concept of the appliance COP

The Coefficient Of Performance (COP) is the amount of heat the pump moves.

A normal CH pump can produce a lot of heat on the pressure side of the pump when the boiler is firing. The COP is amazing. All it is doing is moving heat - it never produced it. The heat was produced by other means: gas oil, solar, etc.

A heat pump moves heat produced by other forms, which invariably is produced by the sun - warming of the ground or water.

BTW, unless the source of heat is stable, the COP of a heat pump drops dramatically as the heat sources gets cold around the pickup point: slinkies, air rads, etc. Running water is best for the heat source as the cooled water runs away. same with air too, except that air cools sharply at night. Water temps are very stable.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

Without trawling through all these pages are you saying that with a condensing boiler you can get more out than you put in?

I don't see why not

He believes in perpetual motion machines too. You are clearly softus in the head.

 

[Softus]

He believes in perpetual motion machines too.

You need to learn to read words and understand them, Water Systems.

 

[billy bob]

DD, I don't care what some jumped up penpushing suit in Europe says, if you want to be suckered into that nonsense

That is how they do it. If you don't believe them that is up to you. But when you see efficiencies quoted of over 100%, post back and thank me for telling you why.

I know that is how some European boiler manufacturers calculate their efficiencies, I have known this for years, I can guarantee that I have been installing condensing boilers long before you even knew about them, but the figure of over 100% that some use does not make them right, it is simply a marketing ploy that relies on suckers like you.

 

[billy bob]

billybob wrote

But we are not talking about heat pumps, we are talking about gas condensing boilers.

I am talking about latent heat and the physics involved links the two in my view.

Heat pumps work on the priciple that for every 1kW of electricity used to power the heat pump, the heat pump will produce 4kW of heat,

It does not produce heat it moves heat.

It does not Move heat it extracts heat from the ground or lake.

 

[Softus]

...the figure of over 100% that some use does not make them right, it is simply a marketing ploy that relies on suckers like you.

There are no other suckers like Drivel - his type of sucking is quite unique.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

DD, I don't care what some jumped up penpushing suit in Europe says, if you want to be suckered into that nonsense

That is how they do it. If you don't believe them that is up to you. But when you see efficiencies quoted of over 100%, post back and thank me for telling you why.

I know that is how some European boiler manufacturers calculate their efficiencies, I have known this for years, I can guarantee that I have been installing condensing boilers long before you even knew about them, but the figure of over 100% that some use does not make them right, it is simply a marketing ploy that relies on suckers like you.

You really don't know - it was clear you had never heard of the 109% scale. . It is used to give a direct comparison to older boilers. If a 10-15 year old non-condensing boiler was rated at 80% on the sensible heat only scale using the 109% scale gives a direct comparison. Get it? Clever people these Europeans.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

...the figure of over 100% that some use does not make them right, it is simply a marketing ploy that relies on suckers like you.

There are no other suckers like Drivel - his type of sucking is quite unique.

It is clear you haven't a clue. And they let you into people's homes? My word!!!

 

[billy bob]

DD, I don't care what some jumped up penpushing suit in Europe says, if you want to be suckered into that nonsense

That is how they do it. If you don't believe them that is up to you. But when you see efficiencies quoted of over 100%, post back and thank me for telling you why.

I know that is how some European boiler manufacturers calculate their efficiencies, I have known this for years, I can guarantee that I have been installing condensing boilers long before you even knew about them, but the figure of over 100% that some use does not make them right, it is simply a marketing ploy that relies on suckers like you.

You really don't know - it was clear you had never heard of the 109% scale. . It is used to give a direct comparison to older boilers. If a 10-15 year old non-condensing boiler was rated at 80% on the sensible heat only scale using the 109% scale gives a direct comparison. Get it? Clever people these Europeans.

Please, do you think you are the only one who has heard of boiler manufacturers claiming efficiencies of over 100%, it is only suckers like you that pay attention to nonsense like that, the rest of us carry on with the real world.
Marketing people must love you, I bet you believe everything you see or read.

 

[billy bob]

DD, try looking at www.boilers.org.uk you will see that the UK work within the 100% spectrum, they do not go into fantasy land.