Ceiling joists question

[Nathan110]

Hi all,

Please see pic

Building dormer loft conversion. Steels will have a joists between them and support on the wall as per normal practice.

The pic shows 1st floor old ceiling joists but builders claim they are not in a great condition, some of them bendy and need replacing. As they are only now holding a ceiling only, is it necessary?

Thanks for you input

 

[^woody^]

I don't understand what joists are what, what's staying and what's going.

 

[Nathan110]

Towards the top of the pic are the ceiling joists for the first floor (old). New joists are being fitted between floor beams above in the dormer loft conversion

 

[^woody^]

Isn't the new loft floor going in at old the ceiling level?

 

[Nathan110]

No above the ceiling level

 

[^woody^]

Then if the ceiling was ok before it should be ok afterwards

 

[Nathan110]

Thanks woody

Lots of things are popping up now:

Lintels are like this:

Been told they all need replacing... Would you agree? The house was like this since 1920s!

 

[^woody^]

There is nothing wrong with old things!

Things which are performing well and have no problems now tend not to need changing. Only change stuff if it is broken, is nearing life end or wont perform as needed once you do other changes (extra loads on lintels say) or suchlike.

 

[Nathan110]

The builders are cheeky brought it to the attention of the BC and they've said you need to change it. I've now been told 4k to have all these lintels replaced There is a loft going above this floor. Is there anyway around this now. Not sure what to do

 

[oldbutnotdead]

I'd suggest first thing is have that conversation with BCO yourself rather than relying on what the builder said BCO said.
While you're talking to BCO, get his thoughts on those joists- they look well overspec for a ceiling only, if they've sagged a bit then builder could sister bits of roughsawn fence board or similar to them to give you a flat level ceiling. Jacking them up won't work well with no downward load on the ends

 

[Nathan110]

I did have a conversation. He said the lintels should be replaced. I don't get why?
Do you gave to always change them on the first floor if constructing a dormer loft conversion above?

Are the building regs now specifying they have to be steel lintels?

The builder passing the cost to me of course but now I have to convince the BCO...

 

[^woody^]

I don't get why?

You need to find out why, it is nonsense that a 150mm concrete or even any lintel needs to be changed for a loft conversion

If need be all you do is put another lintel above before the floor joist go on

 

[Nathan110]

That would make sense

The building control officer is an "apprentice"

He seems to have been influenced by the flags of the builder and agree just by inspection alone.

He's already incorrectly told me the old ceiling joists are load bearing and that was the reason why they have to be replaced despite my attempts to convince him its not. I feel like I'm stuck. Will it look bad if I escalate this within the BC Company. I'm not confident of his opinions that seem to be so rash and will leave me struggling for 12k for works that may not be necessary.

Also if this is not part of their commissioned role (loft conversion and extension) do they have free reign to comment on other structures as flagged up in the whole building (e.g. Lintels on window in first floor). Seems like it could open up scrutiny to everything not relevant to the works!

 

[Nathan110]

I emailed the structural engineer to get confirmation. So I'm perplexed at the BCOs rationale for saying I have to replace those ceiling joists as it's load bearing! Makes me question all his other assessments

 

[^woody^]

The building control officer is an "apprentice"

You are doomed. Ask for a proper one