Ceiling mounted cabinet

[0000]

Hello.

I just found out the wall I wished to mount a kitchen cabinet, doesn't have studs. No it is not from the 70's, this is new build, but it does a similar design to paramount style walls (bloody developers!) , in other words it has a cardboard honeycomb structure in side, and is essentially useless to hang anything heavy off it.

Knocking down the wall and rebuilding it would cause too much disruption. I wish to mount it to the concrete ceiling instead.

I know enough from mechanics/engineering from university that ceiling mount is not as trivial as wall mounting. However I'm not a structural engineer, so need to ask what will work with these materials.

The dimensions of the cabinet are 80x93x36 (wxhxd) three spaces/two shelves. It weighs just under 40kg. I think it is reasonable to allow for 60kg on top of that so 100kg max (which is quite conservative I know)

Garage storage ceiling racks (more popular in the US), and athletics equipment take these sort of loads which gives some confidence. The mount on these look quite modest. I'm probably going to ir on the side of caution and over engineer.

My idea is to mount three vertical steel channels (without the pre drilled holes) to each side (so the top is not taking any weight). These will extend down the side at least 20cm and will be fasten in in three places each. I was then thinking of using delta base brackets to fasten to channels to the ceiling -> link . All right so far?

Now I'm guessing that anchor bolts are the way to go. Which ones and what size? The ceiling is hard concrete. What would be the minimum distance between holes?

How would you approach it?

 

[0000]

let me know I'f I posted this in the wrong place

 

[Deluks]

Paramount partition will still be held up by studs at the perimeter, if you can locate these then screw a batten horizontally or fix ply to the wall to hang the cabinet off, will be much safer.

What's on the other side of the concrete ceiling?

 

[JohnD]

or you can use cabinet hanging rails, which are steel channels that an adjustable cabinet hanger hooks into. These rails have holes every inch or so, and are very rigid and stong with vertical loads. You just need enough screws to prevent them bending or buckling outwards. They do not have much spot-load as they are fixed all along the wall (they are also very convenient for hanging cabinete son, as you can just lift them up and down, and reposition anywhere along the rail. The lengths look like 2000mm

Partition walls usually have a frame fixed to the ceiling that would do, but if yours is a composite board it might not.

I last got some rails from BK. Woodfit have them but are more expensive. They are made by Hafale.

 

[0000]

Yes I thought about this but wondered if there would be be enough strength in the middle. The distance between the door and perpendicular wall is 170cm. The wall is thin, so I'm not expecting there to be much support used.

What's on the other side of the concrete ceiling?

Well ultimately another flat.

 

[0000]

JohnD I always intended to use hanging rails as the cabinet is designed for them. The question is it will fail where I attach them. the adjustable hooks +1

 

[0000]

Maybe I can use a combination solution?

 

[Deluks]

Try and locate where the timber studs are in this wall before giving this any more thought. A stud locator or just poking about with a screwdriver til you hit something solid.

 

[0000]

I actually did that. The only timber studs detected were at the door frame as you would expect. I suspect that not all the stud are wood or solid. I'm also not detecting anything at the ceiling or in the corner. Tried with wood and metal setting. I will try some strategic probing later.

I am also thinking if I was a tight wad developer, I might put some bits up there for alignment but not continuous top plate. How are we to assume that how these are fixed will hold anything? Unlikely so the studs are critical.

 

[Deluks]

How thick are these walls? Could you not cut out a channel and insert a couple of timbers into it?

 

[0000]

It is a possibility. The cavity is ~3.5cm

I would have to remove the bottom cabinet

 

[0000]

I'm definitely thinking of going for a combined solution.

Reasoning: There are is a stud at he corner and at the doorframe, also a top plate. However width wise not very much. The side wall is only a fingers width way from some concrete/breeze so I can also secure at 45 degrees down into that (the stud is also secured to this, and would have spacers)

I'm going to secure with anchor bolts 2"/50cm into the ceiling using a sing delta basket on each and and attach at channel to the inside of both sides.

 

[0000]

great i found a stud and it is wider and sturdy. I think the honey comb was producing noise so the studfinder couldn't find an abrupt change in thickness.