Ceiling Repair - Fill/Tape or Skim Coat - Which is the best?

[self builder 123]

Hi Richard C

I have another question for you !

There is one edge of the ceiling which stops at the edge of the stairwell.

At this point the ceiling plasterboard runs right to this edge where it forms a 90 deg join with another sheet of plasterboard which goes straight up !

I hope this makes sense.

On the vertical face we do not plan to replace the plasterboard.

Can you still skim coat up to an open horizontal edge like this ?

Cheers

 

[Richard C]

Fit a thin coat stop bead where the 2 meet but your spread should know/do that anyway; are you doing it or are you getting someone in?

No spread would attempt to skim over & up to a raw PB edge, it would look awful, be very brittle & always crack. You will need to fill the back edge of the stop bead with filler or caulk before decorating.

If your getting someone in, I would advise you talk to your chosen spread before doing too much work. Get it wrong & you won't be saving money but just making extra work; personally, I won't work in this way & always prefer to do all my own prep as it's the only way I can guarantee quality. If I prep & it goes wrong it can only be my fault; if you do the prep & it goes wrong, sorry, but it's always going to be your fault! & you probably won't save much cash anyway!

 

[self builder 123]

Hi Richard C

Many thanks for your reply.

I am absolutely going to get someone to do this. The reason for my questions was to see if what I was thinking about doing was sensible and the best way forward.

I have watched plasterers in sheer awe at what they can do. It is a true art form in my opinon and I would never even consider trying to attempt something like plastering !

 

[self builder 123]

Hi Richard C

Me again !

With an already emulsioned ceiling will PVA have be to applied to the ceiling ?

Out of interest was plasterboard designed to always be skim coated over - was filling and taping a quick fix which came afterwards so that houses could be built quicker ?

We may be forced to fill and tape the joins on the ceiling ( even though I would prefer to have the ceiling skim coated ) after all. In this case would you recommend applying lining paper to the ceiling to hide the joins ?

Can lining paper be used on a bathroom ceiling ?

Cheers.

 

[trowelmonkey1]

With an already emulsioned ceiling will PVA have be to applied to the ceiling ?

it will certainly need something to aid adhesion if painted, PVA or WBA.

Out of interest was plasterboard designed to always be skim coated over - was filling and taping a quick fix which came afterwards so that houses could be built quicker ?

no idea which was first, whether it was made for skimming then used for taping.

We may be forced to fill and tape the joins on the ceiling ( even though I would prefer to have the ceiling skim coated ) after all. In this case would you recommend applying lining paper to the ceiling to hide the joins ?

if done properly you wouldn't need lining paper to hide any joins, if the joins are that bad then paper isn't going to do much to hide them.

Can lining paper be used on a bathroom ceiling ? but see previous reply

i would have thought that lining paper though unconventional for bathroom ceilings would be fine if sealed with bathroom paint.

not meaning to step on your toes Rich mate!

 

[Richard C]

With an already emulsioned ceiling will PVA have be to applied to the ceiling ?

If it’s matt emulsion just PVA seal the day before, if it’s vinyl I criss-cross score with an old trowel or scraper & go over it with a very stiff wire brush; either way it wont be a problem for the right spread.

Out of interest was plasterboard designed to always be skim coated over - was filling and taping a quick fix which came afterwards so that houses could be built quicker ?

As TM, no idea which came 1st but tape & fill is all they do in some countries, particularly in the states. IMO, it’s really no quicker than skimming but requires virtually no skill other than the ability to apply filler & use a power sander or sanding block; if not done well, it will look bloody awful.

We may be forced to fill and tape the joins on the ceiling ( even though I would prefer to have the ceiling skim coated ) after all.

Tape & fill should be done using taper edge boards rather than the square edge boards normally used when skimming or you will have a bump where the joint reinforcing tape is; if you don’t tape the board joints, it will crack.

In this case would you recommend applying lining paper to the ceiling to hide the joins ?

I absolutely hate the stuff would & never recommend it to anybody for anything other than giving lumps of it to your kids to draw on or wrapping up fish & chips. It’s god awful stuff for bodging over varying degrees of poor finish or other problems that should be sorted out properly. As much as I dislike tape & fill, as TM says, if it’s properly done, you shouldn’t see the joins anyway. Be aware that once you apply lining paper over the boards, you will never be able to skim.

Can lining paper be used on a bathroom ceiling ?

As above but, in a bathroom you run a big risk that steam will cause the paper to bubble & the paint may eventually fall off; but maybe some of the lining paper experts will know.

not meaning to step on your toes Rich mate!

No problem at all TM; was “out of the office” most of yesterday till late.

 

[trowelmonkey1]

good replies Rich i'd heard you didn't like lining paper much, i had no idea how much

 

[Micilin]

As regards the plasterbard origin.

First of all there was lathing , as we all know. There was no taping jointing, as there was nothing to tape and joint.

Then the plasterboard was invented. At the time the concept of the joint was this - the plaster was squeezed in between the laths, and was hel there with a kind of mushroom effect - not quite like a rivet, but you had that kind of idea.

So naturally, this was the way the boards were treated - the edges were bullnosed, and they were fixed with a gap between them which allowed the plaster to be pushed up and mushroom out behind, the same as the joint between two laths so no scrim .

This was always skimmed over, in the same way that floated laths were (latsh used to get a pr1ck coat , sometimes a scratch coat or two as needed, and float coat much the same as eml today.

Scrim was then used (hessian, jute, then the cheap 'bandage' depending on the job)

Some bright spark (or barstwed who should have been strangled at birth, depending on your point of view) in the meantime came up with the notion of just doing the joints and fixings, and I suppose trial and error with finish, filler etc led us to the mess we are in today.

That's my version anyway.

 

[self builder 123]

Micilin

Very interesting !

So if you were going to skim coat a complete new house should the plasterboard be left with a 3mm to 4mm gap between each of the sheets for the skim coat to extrude through ?

I take it that this thin 3mm to 4mm would be strong enough and not crack and then fall out ?

 

[Micilin]

Micilin

Very interesting !

So if you were going to skim coat a complete new house should the plasterboard be left with a 3mm to 4mm gap between each of the sheets for the skim coat to extrude through ?

I take it that this thin 3mm to 4mm would be strong enough and not crack and then fall out ?

Well, you don't have the bullnose on the boards now, to give you the effect on the back of the board. Butt joints (end to end) would have to be scrimmed anyway (didn't mention that above). Clerks of Work used to insist on a gap between the boards, to take a bit of finish.

You have to scrim everything now. If you have too much of a gap , that needs to be filled and scrimmed and left before first coat or else it will form a slight ridge when troweling up.

You can also tape and then skim, as was standard on a lot of jobs that did not use jute, up until maybe 15 -20 ,years ago but the usual is fibatape and skim.

Jute is still the strongest IMO, but you need a lot more finish to cover it, and it takes a bit more work especially on ceilings!!

 

[Richard C]

Only been in it 6 years so can’t really compete with there revered knowledge & wisdom of the long served spreads on here who have seen many changes over the years.

The manufacturer’s recommendations are now to close butt boards & use GF reinforce tape the joins; I’ve personally never tried jute so cant comment on which is best. If you gap the boards, I can speak from personal experience that you will get those ridges but I quickly worked out where I was going wrong.

 

[NickB_99]

good replies Rich i'd heard you didn't like lining paper much, i had no idea how much

Hmm I think Rich likes it as much as coving or artex.....I feel a dinner party coming on...
(Rich - no offence intended )

 

[self builder 123]

Hi many thanks to everyone for their help and for the information.

Cheers

 

[Richard C]

good replies Rich i'd heard you didn't like lining paper much, i had no idea how much

Hmm I think Rich likes it as much as coving or artex.....I feel a dinner party coming on...
(Rich - no offence intended )