Central heating install query

[Madrab]

It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a discussion with the manufacturer and an agreement reached that they have the cylinder replaced, rather than just sending out a new one.

Whether this is a discussion between you and the manufacturers or the installers and the manufacturers then I would still expect the manufacturers to cover the costs for the swap over.

If it was me as the installer, especially if I had supplied it, then I would be the one to pick it up with the manufacturers and see how the costs for the replacement would be covered, that's what this really all comes down to. Personally I wouldn't expect the installer to cover that labour as it wasn't their workmanship that caused the problem, unless it was their install that caused the issue in the first place.

 

[sjmac]

The installer should just get on with it and get it swapped over. The installer should have a margin on the materials and this a perfect example of why you should have a margin.

 

[gmac00]

The installers are now suggesting that the valve (where the leak is coming from) is changed rather than the whole cylinder but not even offering to do that. They obviously lost their shirt on this installation and are trying to avoid any other cost, at all costs.

See the email they sent to Telford below...........

Having been on-site and seeing the fault with the cylinder first hand we have clarified with Mr Macleod that it is not a workmanship issue. The fault is with the cylinder, due to only being 6-7 months old - revert to manufacturer due to being under warranty.

I would prefer Mr Macleod deals with yourselves/manufacturer direct with regards to who is paying for the labour and disruption to the property as it is totally out of our hands.

As previously mentioned there is no requirement to change the full cylinder. The PRV that you have described being glued into position from factory is where the fault has been identified. How Telford decide to get this sorted would be something Telford should be exploring as opposed to sending out a new cylinder which is not feasible.

From our side, it is clear that this is a defect on an item that should be covered under warranty and down to the company to explore all options to find a suitable outcome for the customer.

We shall follow up with Mr Macleod to make him aware that we have been in touch with yourselves and if it does not get resolved to escalate as a complaint to your MD to find an amicable resolution.

 

[sjmac]

Is there a bit more to this than we know so far??????

If its just now leaking from the prv tapping then its a twenty minute job to rectify and still their responsibility to resolve . Have you ****ed them off ??

 

[gmac00]

This install has been a nightmare, with loads of issues and yes they are probably as p****d off with me as I am with them. They've had to return several times to fix leaks, an exploding radiator and generally poor workmanship.

I can say with my hand on my heart that I'm not one of these moaning buggers who complain about everything, in fact, I'm the opposite and probably don't speak up enough, but this has pushed me over the edge.

I think they underestimated how difficult this job would be and cut corners to try and reduce costs and it's come back to bite them in the ass, or actually, me in the ass.

I need to find a qualified unvented cylinder engineer (G3 certificate) to replace the valve, are they easy to come by?

 

[gmac00]

Just received this from the installers, legally are they correct?



Thank you for your patience.

We have been in touch with Telford over the past week providing them with information required.

Having one of our engineers on-site and identifying the fault with the cylinder PRV we believe that it would be a more feasible option for Telford to make a warranty call to replace the PRV.

Telford have made us aware that the PRV is factory fitted into position and would require a process to replace to prevent further damage to the tank.

There is absolutely no requirement to change the full cylinder as it is not feasible. Telford will not cover the labour costs to remove the existing cylinder out off the attic nor cover the cost of a joiner to allow access to get tank out and also installing a new tank. The process of getting the tank out of the attic without causing damage to the property should also be factored.

From our view, it is clear that the tank has a malfunction on the PRV valve and should be covered under warranty and down to Telford to explore all options to find a suitable outcome for yourself.

We have made Telford aware that we will relay this information to yourself and if not resolved you are within your rights to escalate as a complaint to Telford MD to find an amicable resolution.

Kindest regards,

 

[sjmac]

If its just the PRV I can't see what all the fuss is about. Let Telford change the PRV or let the installer change the PRV if thats all that needs to be done.

I'm not sure where changing a cylinder has come into this...

 

[gmac00]

Telford initially said the cylinder needed to be replaced because they could not tell if there was an internal issue as opposed to the PRV leaking.

The installers have also not had any who knew what they were doing in to look at them, the guy that came in to fix the leaking boiler said he didn't have a clue and would need one of the install team to look at it.

Anyway, I'll get the PRV replaced and move on......I hope I never need to install another central heating system

 

[sjmac]

The PRV is wound into the cylinder in the factory with a liquid type sealant (glue). Sometimes these connections take a bit of a battering in transit or possibly manhandling into a loft using the prv as a handle.

It sounds like the installer is ****ed off due to the job not going well etc (we don't know the full details). To be honest its still their issue to rectify either via Telford or by their own labour. Telford do have engineers or agents they use for in warranty repairs, so you should be able to get this resolved.

 

[Mottie]

So if you had an engine fitted by a VW dealer and it developed a fault, would you be coected to deal directly with VW? No, you wouldn’t. Your contract was with the dealer. It’s down to them to fix it and then sort it with VW. Threaten the installer with trading standards etc. Tell them you are giving them the chance to sort it or you will sort it yourself and claim back the money through the small claims court.

 

[gmac00]

So if you had an engine fitted by a VW dealer and it developed a fault, would you be coected to deal directly with VW? No, you wouldn’t. Your contract was with the dealer. It’s down to them to fix it and then sort it with VW. Threaten the installer with trading standards etc. Tell them you are giving them the chance to sort it or you will sort it yourself and claim back the money through the small claims court.

Agreed, it doesn't really make any sense other than the fact they are ****ed off with this install. I'm going to check with Trading Standards what the situation is and give them an opportunity to fix it. If the won't then I'll get it done my self and take legal advice.

 

[gmac00]

The PRV is wound into the cylinder in the factory with a liquid type sealant (glue). Sometimes these connections take a bit of a battering in transit or possibly manhandling into a loft using the prv as a handle.

It sounds like the installer is ****ed off due to the job not going well etc (we don't know the full details). To be honest its still their issue to rectify either via Telford or by their own labour. Telford do have engineers or agents they use for in warranty repairs, so you should be able to get this resolved.

Apparently Telford don't have an engineer who covers my area, though I do live in a very rural part of Scotland, 7 miles south of Glasgow LOL

 

[oldbutnotdead]

So if you had an engine fitted by a VW dealer and it developed a fault, would you be coected to deal directly with VW? No, you wouldn’t. Your contract was with the dealer. It’s down to them to fix it and then sort it with VW. Threaten the installer with trading standards etc. Tell them you are giving them the chance to sort it or you will sort it yourself and claim back the money through the small claims court.

As above. You contracted with the installers to supply and fit a working system. They have failed to do so- maybe not their fault that the cylinder has a manufacturing defect but that's their problem to rectify and their squabble to have with Telford about how much it is going to cost to get the job right. Letter before action time....

 

[gmac00]

Shots fired......lets see how they respond


On 25/07/2022 we purchased a sales contract for a Heating System from your company iSafe Gas.
Since taking possession of the goods, we have had the following issues: -

Damage to kitchen ceiling post leakage of new system.

Issue with valve on radiator, which had to be replaced – leakage from radiator resulted in
professional carpet cleaning, cost covered by owners.

Pipe work to bedroom radiator replacement.

Failure of system on 2 occasions- iSafe Gas couldn’t provide a technician

Pressure drop on system – this was caused by a leakage under the bathroom floor from
older pipes (Cost to repair covered by owners- out with scope of iSafe Gas installation)

Leakage on horizontal cylinder – which is an ongoing & continuous. Owners covered the cost
of a replacement PRV valve & fitting on instruction from iSafe Gas, however this has not
resolved the issue. Manufacturer Telford’s technical experts have confirmed the cylinder
needs replaced.
As an aside when sold the system by your salesman we were advised to remove the radiator in
the top hall, as the new system would provide sufficient heat – which in hindsight wasn’t
appropriate or accurate as the temperature in the hall is hard to maintain.
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 states that goods we have purchased from a trader should be of
satisfactory quality (Part 1, Chapter 2, Section 9) and therefore free from defects. Based on the
concerns and ongoing issue of the water tank not being fit for purpose (Chapter 2, Section 10),
we do not consider this to be the case.
Under the above legislation, we request that you contact me as soon as possible to discuss
arrangement for repairing or replacing the goods.
We understand from the above legislation that any repair or replacement should be free of
charge and that arrangements to uplift the item, along with any associated costs for collection, be
handled by your business.
We ask that you respond within 14 days of receiving this letter or we will be forced to look at
taking further action.