Ceramic tap valve leaking - missing O ring?

[SenileGit]

I have a leaking ceramic tap valve (a common problem here I expect). I noticed that the tap shaft felt loose, and the part where the circlip goes wasn't right next to the part where the shaft enters the body of the cartridge, so I dismantled the valve and found that there was a white washer of what looks like nylon, but this was loose and had a space behind it, so as the shaft was put back into the cartridge, it can move too far to the right (as shown in the photos below), thus making the ceramic discs loose, so they leak water.
I fitted an O ring behind the nylon washer, and this worked for a couple of days, then the tap started leaking really badly, and I dismantled it and found that the new O ring had vanished.

Does anybody know what should actually be there behind the nylon washer? Should the nylon washer be much thicker, and has worn down over time? (I've had the taps about three years.) I don't want to dismantle another tap in my house to see what it should look like. (The other tap from where this one came has the same problem, it leaks, and has a small nylon washer.)

Also, are there 18 main types of ceramic tap cartridges? It's a nightmare trying to find a replacement cartridge, with all the different measurements, and it was only after about an hour of searching online that I found two different websites selling cartridges numbered from CC1 to CC18, and they sell a spline finder, a flat piece of metal with holes in it, into which you push the spline of your cartridge, until you find the one that matches - are there really 18 different diameters of splines? The holes on the spline finder don't look like they are big enough to have 18 different diameters, but this is only going by a small photo on a website. This all seems to be something of a black art, a trade secret, where the information about cartridge sizes is kept secret from the public - or maybe my search engine isn't showing me the right website.


1st photo: Cartridge when I first removed it - notice the left hand arrow shows a big gap between the lower ceramic disc and one of the metal 'prongs' that it rests on. The right hand arrow shows how the shaft has protruded too far to the right.

2nd photo: I pushed the shaft to the left to show how it should look when working properly, and creating a good seal between the two ceramic discs.

3rd photo: I extracted the shaft and you can see that the nylon washer has a space behind it - when reinserted into the cartridge, the nylon washer will move to the left and there will be a space to the right of it, allowing the shaft to protrude too far to the right, as shown in photo 1.

4th photo: I have started to put an O ring onto the shaft.

5th photo: I have put the O ring behind the nylon washer, so it forces the washer to the right (where I believe it should be) so that the shaft can't protrude too far to the right.

6th photo: the shaft is now in the correct position, with the circlip touching the cartridge body, and the shaft cannot move any further to the right, thus the two ceramic discs are pushed together tightly and cannot leak.

 

[Madrab]

The nylon spacer/shim has worn down. An O ring would not be a suitable replacement as the o-ring will flex and deform off of that, probably why it's disappeared whereas the harder nylon shim wouldn't, it does have a finite life though. It really is a non serviceable part, so time for a new valve.

 

[SenileGit]

I thought that the nylon spacer must have worn down, because the taps didn't leak for years when I first bought them. So I can't buy a replacement nylon spacer? I have to throw the entire cartridge away? After all, the nylon spacer only has to sit against the lip to the left of it, so if I removed the two original O rings temporarily, I would think I could slide one down onto the shaft? I presume they have to slide it on during manufacturing, unless there's a special technique required to get it on there.
I am in a hard water area, and the taps these cartridges came with are a bath shower mixer that I got off Ebay for about £35, very cheap compared to the old one I had bought from Toolstation -the diverter had stopped working properly and I couldn't fix it. So I expect the nylon spacer is as cheaply made as possible, which sucks!
I think I have a CC1 cartridge, and a local shop has them in stock, so I'm going to go down on Monday and see if their cartridges match mine.

 

[Madrab]

These parts aren't usually serviceable and I've never seen them available, there isn't such a thing as a ceramic valve service kit. I'd guess that's it's purely down to the number of different types available these days, it would be so hard to supply the correct parts needed as there must be 1000's of different to choose from now and there are no real manufacturing standards for these things.

 

[Alec_t]

I'd be tempted to make an additional spacer from a suitable bit of polythene, brass or copper sheet, even a length of hammered-flat ring-main copper wire. But then, I have time on my hands and am a skinflint .

 

[HERTS P&D]

I would just replace the tap.

Andy

 

[SenileGit]

I was thinking of putting a length of copper wire in behind the nylon spacer, instead of a rubber O ring. When the nylon spacer eventually wears away completely, I would just add a few more turns of copper, enough to keep the shaft from going too far to the right (in the photos above).
HertsP&D, I want to keep the cartridge going for as long as possible. I don't think we should be throwing things away when they break if it can be avoided. And finding the correct cartridge that actually fits my taps has been a waste of two hours of my time already. Finding an M8 nylon washer that I know will fit, or can easily be adjusted to fit, took me one minute, and I will be able to repair any future problems I have with the same nylon washers (and some 1.5mm O rings I've bought from Ebay too).

Madrab - you would think there can't be that many different diameters of shafts though - how many can there possibly be? Ten? If that? We are talking about a small nylon washer, somebody must make them, or the tap cartridge manufacturers wouldn't be able to make the tap cartridges!
Having just looked on Ebay at the size diagrams shown for numerous tap cartridges, they are almost all 8mm, 8.2mm or 8.3mm in diameter. So any M8 nylon washer should fit on with no problems, if I remove the two O rings first. I would say it was definitely a serviceable part, why do you think it isn't?

And voila:

Nylon Flat Washers Form A Plastic Washer M2.5,M3,M4,M5,M6,M8,M10,M12,M16,M20 | eBay

Specs (mm) M6 M8 M10 M12. Specs (mm) M2.5 M3 M4 M5. Nylon washers are designed to evenly distribute the pressure of a nut or bolt during tightening. Specs (mm) M14 M16 M18 M20. These Special Flat Nylon Washers are available in a large selection of sizes and can also be used as spacers or insulators.

www.ebay.co.uk

These are 1.5mm thick, another seller has 1.8mm thick ones. I have put a new O ring on and put the cartridge back in the tap, but next time I get it out I'll measure the exact thickness of nylon washer I need and buy a pack. If it's too wide on the outside diameter, I can easily cut some off with a craft knife.

I don't see why any of these tap cartridges need to be thrown out 99% of the time - the brass parts are unlikely to break, it's O rings and nylon washers that wear out, and the ceramic discs get limescale on them and need cleaning in citric acid, that's it. O rings and nylon washers are cheap and easy to fit.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Even if the inside diameter is too small, I can just manually cut it out a bit with a craft knife. If the thickness isn't enough, I'll put two on.

I gave up on the ceramic taps here, long ago. I find the old multi-turn ones much longer lasting and easier to service/repair.

 

[Madrab]

Madrab - you would think there can't be that many different diameters of shafts though - how many can there possibly be? Ten? If that? We are talking about a small nylon washer, somebody must make them, or the tap cartridge manufacturers wouldn't be able to make the tap cartridges!
Having just looked on Ebay at the size diagrams shown for numerous tap cartridges, they are almost all 8mm, 8.2mm or 8.3mm in diameter. So any M8 nylon washer should fit on with no problems, if I remove the two O rings first. I would say it was definitely a serviceable part, why do you think it isn't?

You would think so , wouldn't you. Just go a look at how many different ceramic valves there are for taps. This is just one supplier

Replacement Tap Valves | Ceramic Disk & Washer Tap valves - Hart Plumbing Spares

Replacement tap valves to fix drips and leaks on most makes of bathroom and kitchen taps. Quarter turn and compression 'two handle' valves – 1/2″ sizes (for basin/sink taps) & 3/4″ size (for bath taps).

www.hartplumbingspares.co.uk

That being said, you may be lucky and get a new nylon washer straight off if you perform some close measuring with a set of calipers. I suppose it all comes down to whether it's worth the effort, given the rest of the valve is at the same age & wear stage

 

[Alec_t]

I don't think we should be throwing things away when they break if it can be avoided.

I fully agree. But for the tradespeople who give advice on this site it usually makes financial sense to bin something rather than repair it.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I fully agree. But for the tradespeople who give advice on this site it usually makes financial sense to bin something rather than repair it.

From my point of view, cost is less important than the satisfaction derived from achieving a repair, or something not intended to be repaired...

 

[Madrab]

I fully agree. But for the tradespeople who give advice on this site it usually makes financial sense to bin something rather than repair it.

I'm all for repairing where possible too but sometime it becomes cost restrictive to repair a component that wasn't really designed to be repaired in the first place. An older compression tap is always repaired/serviced when it starts to cause trouble and you can now buy new ceramic disks/seals etc just not those nylon parts.

That and I recycle all my brass and copper, it's never just thrown in the bin.

 

[Alec_t]

you can now buy new ceramic disks/seals etc

..... if you know the make and model of the appliance with the faulty cartridge, the parts are still in production and they are readily available at a sensible price. It's a great shame that there seem to be no standard sizes for these things.

 

[Madrab]

if you know the make and model of the appliance with the faulty cartridge, the parts are still in production and they are readily available at a sensible price

Huge amount of Asian made fixtures that there will never be parts for, even if the make and model are known, that's the problem. Some may be lucky and find they use generic bits but for a lot of them parts will never be available as they just don't make spares. One of the reason our culture has become throwaway, as it's out of reliance on these cheap imports and happily built up the far east's cheap grey economy and turned it into a key manufacturer of a lot of cheap crap.

UK is one of the worst culprits, a lot here in UK aren't prepared to pay for higher quality stuff that has great backup and an established support system with parts and knowledge and why a lot of our high quality industries have since gone the way of the dodo. Happy to pay for cheap crap that's thrown away when it breaks