Combi Question from a Level 2 Plumber...

[2520years]

I'm doing Level 3 in September, so I haven't done Combi boilers yet. Don't worry, I'm not planning to touch anything beyond my qualifications, but...

I've been asked to route some pipes directly from a Combi boiler into a kitchen. They want the existing kitchen pipes blanked off and removed that come down from the bathroom (I don't know why!)

1) Can I tee off from the cold inlet to the boiler for the cold.
2) Can I tee off from the domestic hot water outlet from the boiler for the hot?
3) If so, how do I positively identify them?
4) If we get this far, will I have to drain the whole system if there isn't a isolation valve on the boiler cold inlet? With it being a pressurised system what effect will that have on my draining down?

I hope this makes sense. I'm not going to do this if I'm not sure what I'm doing, so I need your help.

Thanks in advance!

 

[simond]

Are you sure you've done Level 2? Did you pass it?

Seriously, I think you need to get an apprenticeship before going out on your own, you are going to get into some real trouble. I'll leave the others to answer your frighteningly banale questions.

 

[Paul Barker]

I've been asked to route some pipes directly from a Combi boiler into a kitchen. They want the existing kitchen pipes blanked off and removed that come down from the bathroom (I don't know why!)

!

You are going to have to make sure there is still a cold main feed to the bathroom afterwards. They obviously think bo0th hot and cold come from bathroom to kitchen. Very unlilkely the cold is in that direction. By cutting off the pipes between kitchen and bathroom you could cut off the cold supply to the bathroom and to the boiler. You are the expert, you must work it out, yopu can't take their word for it. They most likely won't even know where their stop cock is.

1) Can I tee off from the cold inlet to the boiler for the cold.!

yes

2) Can I tee off from the domestic hot water outlet from the boiler for the hot?

!

yes

3) If so, how do I positively identify them?
!

Hard to believe you can't figure this out. One will get hot, they'll both be 15mm the only other 15mm pipe should go outside, if gas is 15mm it shouldn't be but if it is it's usually got a gas cock and a multifucntion gas valve on the end of it. Cold usually has a ballofix iso valve on it.

4) If we get this far, will I have to drain the whole system if there isn't a isolation valve on the boiler cold inlet? With it being a pressurised system what effect will that have on my draining down?
!

Not the heating system no. Isolate cold supply at stop cock.

The effect of draining down a pressurised system is that it will require refilling afterwards via a filling loop, until the pressure guage on the boiler reads 1 to 1.5bar, remembering to bleed rads and prime boiler check aav is open cycle betyween heating and hot water, never let it fire for more than a few seconds until all sloshing noises have subsided and it runs quietly and smoothly. Cionscentrate on what you are doing or the boiler will be in the skip the following week and someone who does know what they are doing will be havbing to fit a new one in a bums rush when he's already got loads of work 'cause he doesn't need his nappy changing.

 

[gas4you]

As Simon points out, the questions you are asking are more about basic plumbing rather than anything specific to a combi installation

 

[moliver34]

Scary...and your doing your NVQ3

 

[bripl]

have said this before
N=NOT
V=VERY
Q=QUALIFIED
basic questions i would expect a first year apprentice to be able to answer.sorry to be so harsh but i am fed up going in after these people and sorting it out and then labeled a rip off merchant because the other fella only charged them xxx amount,get some proper experience with a qualified person.

 

[lightning]

the problem here is that you go to college 1 a week for 3 years ,i have just passed city and guilds level 3 ,but you dont have the know how.
i know 10 other people pass with me and i would not let them go near any of my plumbing or central heating.
do what i did get yourself in with a local plumbing and work for nothing {weekends} to get the know how on what you are doing

 

[2520years]

Thanks Paul Barker. I should be okay now. The kitchen is in an extension and the only pipes coming in come from the ceiling (roughly below the bathroom). I can check them better when I start the job, but I can't see anything in the bathroom because it's newly fitted and everything is concealed.

simond. The helpful part of your answer, about doing an apprenticeship is fair comment. I'd love to...but it's virtually impossible. No-one will take me on because they get grants for taking on school leavers, which I'm not. So what am I supposed to do? I passed my course with an excellent report at every stage, but that didn't include combi boilers, so I thought I'd do some research. (You don't seem to think I should have done that though.) Maybe you could make a more realistic suggestion than an apprenticeship, I'd be glad if you could.

gas4you. Thanks, that's all I needed to know. I wanted to be sure that I wasn't missing anything having not done combis yet.

moliver34. Yes, I hope to, but I haven't started it yet, I've only done the City & Guilds so far. I can't do NVQ very easily because no-one will take me on.

bripl. As explained above, I can't get experince with a qualified person. No-one on my course has been able to get experience with a qualified person. You sound like you must be in the industry, what do you suggest?

lightning. Thanks, I agree that we need more training, or more hands-on experience. The problem is obvious enough, but no-ones suggesting a solution. (I tried to get in with a plumber for free but it didn't work out. The trouble is that after being at college for a year, I'm skint and need to earn some money to pay the mortgage.)


Some seemed to be quick to have a go at my post, so I hope that you can come back now with a viable solution...after all, surely you can only justify being smug if you have all the answers?

[/code]

 

[simond]

I know it sounds smug to you. To us you sound frightening and I wonder how your customers would feel if they thought you were designing their job using an internet discussion forum?

If I was your insurance company I would be worried too.

If a 3rd yr student came into our warehouse and didn't have clue how a combi worked, or as a minimum how to identify which pipe was which, he would be out of the door faster than Bernard Manning could insult an ethnic minority.

I don't think you are going to cut it, you could have tried harder to find a plumber to work alongside or bought a b1oody book. That's how I started.

As they say on Dragons Den, you are an idiot, I'm OUT.

 

[simond]

 

[bripl]

2520 wrote

bripl. As explained above, I can't get experince with a qualified person. No-one on my course has been able to get experience with a qualified person. You sound like you must be in the industry, what do you suggest?


my suggestion is get off your rear end and look,the company i work for takes on people all the time as low paid helpers.go round the plumbers merchants and ask use your brain not the keyboard,if you are as good as you say it will not be a problem.currently i have a nvq2 trainee with me who has acs in four appliances plus core who struggles with the basics of gas.not your fault i know but the sooner the trainning centres/colledges start applying the criteria correctly the better.good luck with your search keep at it and someone will help.

 

[gas4you]

We all know it is hard, but if we all managed it with sacrifices, then anybody can with the right committment.

Although you may be prepared to work for free, dont forget that it will probably cost your benevolant employer more in insurance costs etc.

My opinion of any trade training centres is that they teach the trainees 'history' rather than up to date real world stuff. Probably down to cost as they will not want to spend the money on new equipment/boilers etc when they can get given 'removed' items for free

 

[Agile]

i have a nvq2 trainee with me who has acs in four appliances plus core who struggles with the basics of gas.not your fault i know but the sooner the trainning centres/colledges start applying the criteria correctly the better.

Thats the problem!

The criteria to start a full gas course is to be employed in the industry.

Yet the trainers and colleges take anyone with money to pay the fees.

Come to think of it I have only had just ONE prospective trainee call me during the last month!

Tony

 

[lightning]

i think you are all being a bit harsh ,we all have to start some were,isn't good he got off his arse to go to college anyway,plus we all have to pay a morgage,
you have to be lucky that some one will take you on and train you.

 

[Vinno]

**** me I'm not even a plumber and I could answer the questions he posed!