Complete novice + first home = clueless

[dunkle]

Moved into my first home with fiancee 3 weeks back after 30 years of living with parents

Trying to make it feel like home - but am already having problems with the heating and been pointed here for some advice.

Not sure if it will help - but I will post some pictures of what I see to be the main parts of the system

The timer unit - took some figuring out but was given an explanation over at the avforums of all places and think have it sussed




I then have this - which I have been informed is a Honeywell 3 port valve



and then in the kitchen I have this ...




I have a few problems and maybe someone can help

(1) Everytime we put the water on to heat up the radiators come on - not a huge problem in these cold months but can see it being a problem next summer. In fact the only way the radiators will heat up is to turn the water on. Pressing the heating button does not seem to do anything

(2) Had problem getting downstairs radiators working. Me Dad found a thing near to the valve near the tank and after turning it two of the 3 downstairs radiators come on and work fine.

However the third one in front room does not heat up - the pipes to it get warm but only to about 3 quarters of the way down - then the pipe seems cold and no heat comes of the radiator.

Dad has bled them all and made sure that the valve is open

Any help will be more than gratefully recived

 

[Paul Barker]

It may be that the system is designed for heating only to com eon with hot water, or it may be that a strapper (extra wire) is required between hot water cylinder thermostat unused terminal (#2) should be strapped to the hot water off terminal of the programmer and the grey leed for the honeywell valve you showed a picture of.

 

[dunkle]

Thanks

Its all over my head but may mean something to my old man

 

[ltheb]

If you google Honeywell 'Y'plan or go to the Honeywell web site you will get the wiring schematic for a 'Y'plan there (which is hopefully what you have)
!! take care !! there may be a white or black wire which has just been snipped off. Please take care to terminate these safely in separate connector blocks - they can become live in certain situations but it is/was common (BAD) practice to just snip the ends if they weren't needed.

 

[dunkle]

Cheers will do that and pass on to me Dad - like I said its all over my head but I am trying to learn

We had problem whereby none of the downstairs radiators worked - as mentioned Dad turned a tap near the water tank and the downstairs rads worked - however after turning them off when we went out we have switched them back on only for none of the downstairs rads to work again

Mighty miffed and more than a little cold

Out of interest where are these wires you mention ? Are they inside that metal block I took a picture off (it gets hot) or someplace else ?

 

[dunkle]

Not sure if it will help or not but couple more pics

The first is the back of the Honeywell - it has a little arm which never seems to move from the position it can be seen it here - although you can puch it (with little resistance) to the other side. Also it says Auto on it - not sure what that corresponds with - only just noticed it with the pic



The second pic is below the valve - I assume the big red thing is the pump - it certainly makes a noise when system comes on - I belive the taps above and below are for when it needs removing - the tap to the right is, I belive, what my Dad turned to get the downstairs rads working - except now they have stopped again

 

[MANDATE]

Hi dunkle! The 'Y' plan system all revolves around the 3 port motorised valve. If everything is wired correctly you have the choice of Hot Water (HW) only or Central Heating (CH) only. You can select both and the valve will take up the mid position, the pump pushs water to both sides until one side becomes satisfied and valve then moves to the side not yet satisfied and should both side become satisfied then boiler and pump will close down until the situation changes when it will flash up again and valve will automatically go to the correct position to meet one or both demands.
The lever on the valves side is not relevent during its normal day to day operation. It is there to move and hold the valve at mid point while filling the sysyem.
The control of the system starts with the programmer which will include some form of timer. As a learner, you can look at the programmer as being 2 switches, 1 for CH and 1 for HW. The one for CH is a one way switch but the one for HW is a two way switch. This means 1wire in and 1 wire out For CH but 1 wire in but 2 wires out for HW (but both can't be live at the same time). one is called HW ON and the other HW OFF
So where do these wires go. Well the one from the CH switch goes to the room stat to control CH and the one from HW ON goes to the cylinder stat to control HW. The 3rd wire goes to the 3 port valve.
Let's move on to the two stats. The room stat is like a one way switch in it's basic form, so a live wire goes in and a 'switched live' comes out which goes to the 3 port valve.
The cylinder stat is like a two way switch, so a 'live' wire goes in and a 'switched live' come out from one terminal and goes to the boiler.
When the HW is satisfied it cuts off the supply to boiler and diverts it to the other output terminal where it goes to the 3 port valve.
As I said the 3 port valve is the hub of this system. It has a valve body containing the valve and on top you have a actuator head. The head has inside a motor and microswitches (both known to give problems)
To ease the problem of wiring there will be a 10 terminal junction box where the wires will be correctly linked so all the correct connections are made.
Apart from the control system most radiator problems are due to some form of restriction assuming the pump is operating. They could be caused by closed valves, sediment or air. You have to think Pump running? Pump need bleeding? Pump impeller broke? Radiator valve closed? radiator need bleeding ? sediment in radiator ? sediment in pipe ? lack of water?
and of course 3 port valve operating correctly?
Don't forget on a radiator there two valves (On/Off and lockshield ) and it will still bleed ok if one is closed, best to bleed with one open and one closed then vice versa, this proves both valves ok. also lockshield valve is for balancing so only needs to be slightly open.
There's a lot to understand if your starting from scratch, so read as much as you can on the 3 port motorised valve. Best of luck!

 

[MANDATE]

Your right about the pump and isolating valves. The valve to the right looks like a by pass valve. If that is fully open then the pump will push water down that pipe instead of going up to the 3 port valve and to the radiators.

 

[dunkle]

So (and bear in mind im an idiot trying to understand) in the simplest of terms and using the second picture as a starting to point what does everything do and what would the flow of things be

The lever (seen in pic one above) just seems to be permantly in the position its shown in there

Whats should I be looking at doinf to try and get it working - it seems a fairly old system from documentation I can find

 

[MANDATE]

If I was in your position, I would want to know if the 3 port valve was functioning correctly. Now I know how it works, so I would select CH only and if boiler lights I would be happy. I would also feel pipe either side of 3 port valve to satisfy myself water is being pumped around the CH side.
Now if the boiler did not light, it tells me there was no power from the valves output terminal, which could be due faulty micro switch or the micro switch not triggered due to faulty motor.
If the problem is due to faulty micro switch, it does baffle many people, because they do get CH, but only when HW is also demanded and also only for short periods. so you need to be precise in describing your problem.
You may not know that many systems cannot have CH only, the choice was HW only or HW/CH and the introduction of the 3 port gives you this choice of CH only along with HW only or automatically shared according to demand.
The CH side feeds all the radiators whilst the HW side feeds into a coil in the cylinder. A room stat will control the valve for CH and a cylinder stat (fastened on the side of the cylinder) will control the valve for HW.
If you have problems with only one or two radiators while others are ok then at least you know it's not the valve.

 

[dunkle]

CHristmas Morning and I am still trying - Im hooked I guess

Boiler does indeed ligh when I turn just the CH on - but the arm on the lever does not move at all - just stays as shown above

Really wish I could replicate whatever it was we did yesterday when 2 of the 3 downstairs rads worked - at the time Dad just turned that tap seen to the right of the bottom picture above and thught he cracked it - but now they have stopped again

 

[Papion]

The lever on the 3 way valve in my CH system stays where it is in the auto position when running. However, it would move back to the off position (extreme right away from the auto position) when off. Then it would be able to manually move with resistance to "on" position (mine has manual marking on it) and locked on if the lever is over the hump position You can feel the valve move.

It seems your 3 way valve is working ok to have some hot radiators. May be your pump is at the lowest setting and should be set to high.

It seems your radiators balance valves are wrongly balanced. Those nearest to the boiler are set at the lowest setting (half or more turn from closed) and those away are a few turns opened.

 

[dunkle]

The lever on the 3 way valve in my CH system stays where it is in the auto position when running. However, it would move back to the off position (extreme right away from the auto position) when off. Then it would be able to manually move with resistance to "on" position (mine has manual marking on it) and locked on if the lever is over the hump position You can feel the valve move.

It seems your 3 way valve is working ok to have some hot radiators. May be your pump is at the lowest setting and should be set to high.

It seems your radiators balance valves are wrongly balanced. Those nearest to the boiler are set at the lowest setting (half or more turn from closed) and those away are a few turns opened.

Your second person to mention that last bit

(1) How do I turn the pump up
(2) How do I turn them up ? Is it that thing to the right as I look at them ?

 

[MANDATE]

The pump should have a lever on the back so you can set it to any of 3 speeds.
A radiator has 1 valve for turning on and off with knob on top. It also has another identical valve with plastic cover and no knob.
The room stat controls the valve according to the temperture in that room only, so other rooms may be too hot or too cold. This is because the water in those radiators is flowing through too quickly or too slowly.
If room too cold the water in the radiator gives off heat and begins to cool and it needs replacing with hotter water fairly quickly, but if the lockshield valve is almost closed, it restricts the flow and water not replaced fast enough.
If room too hot, radiator has too much flow and it needs restricting by closing the lockshield a little.
I still feel the valve your dad opened fully is a by pass and the water is never going to go along all the heating pipe work which has resistance, if there is an easier path. I'm not suggesting the valve be closed fully but almost closed. Do you know where the pipe this valve is on goes to?
Can't you close the valve a half turn at a time and feel the CH pipe to see what difference it makes.
Even if the radiators don't work correctly due to valve or sediment you need to ensure hot water is flowing along the flow and return pipe.

 

[dunkle]

Thanks

Will investigate further over next couple of days - plenty there to try