Compliant Cable Colours

[kingfisher]

The new cable colours I believe are brown and blue but I have an old 50 metre reel of 2.5mm which has red and black. I have starting using this but before I start the major work on my kitchen I thought I'd better check if this is legal to use and compliant with current regulations ?
Can I still use this ?
p.s I intend to get a spark to put in a new consumer unit and check my work and get necessary certificate etc.

 

[Adam_151]

you can use those cable colours until the end of march, what should be of more concern to you, is what you are doing are notifiable works under part p of the building regulations (which came into force 1st jan '05)

 

[Qedelec]

p.s I intend to get a spark to put in a new consumer unit and check my work and get necessary certificate etc.

You should be notifying building cotrol and filling in a Electrical Installation Certificate for the work you are doing and have building control pass it when you have completed.
You will not be able to get a spark to put his signature to your work, all he can issue you with is a Periodic Inspection Report, which is not exhaustive.

 

[kingfisher]

My god, what a can of worms this is !! Just phoned my local buildings control dept and apparently I have to make an application for the work i'm doing and it MUST be a NICEIC registered electrician that installs the consumer unit and he then issues me with a certificate for his work and then they told me the NICEIC electrician must then test my work and then his report goes to the buildings control people who then issue me another certificate.........
They're sending me an application form and some explanitory documents.....

Anyway, thanks for comments.

 

[Adam_151]

I do wish they'd stop spreading such mis-information, i'll wait for ban-all-sheds to come and correct it because he is more clued up on part p than me, but the fact that they seemed to deny the existance of any other scheme except niceic* doesn't bode well...

* theres niceic, napit, elecsa, bre, bsi and a few more for limited scope things, like corgi do one for the small bits of electrics gas fitters need to do

 

[dingbat]

the fact that they seemed to deny the existance of any other scheme except niceic* doesn't bode well...

Wot you on about? It's brilliant!

Oh, I am in NICEIC, of course.

 

[Pensdown]

I do wish they'd stop spreading such mis-information,

Me to.

theres niceic, napit, elecsa, bre, bsi

Quite correct, ECA etc.

If you use one of these Part P contractors and they will be certifying the works you DO NOT need to notify building control as the contractor will take care of that on completion.

If you want to do the work yourself, you DO need to notify building control and supply them with your designs etc BEFORE you start, just as you do for building reg approval for an extension etc. Like all building works, once you have notified BC, you can "start at risk" however, you need to be very sure your doing it right as if not, out it comes. They may also want to see the installation at first fix so starting is very risky.

Adam, sorry I used quote, which button do I use for Adam Wrote:

 

[Qedelec]

the fact that they seemed to deny the existance of any other scheme except niceic* doesn't bode well...

Wot you on about? It's brilliant!

Oh, I am in NICEIC, of course.

Me too, its brilliant ain't it.

Pensdown you click Quote on the thread not after you have clicked 'reply'

 

[Pensdown]

the fact that they seemed to deny the existance of any other scheme except niceic* doesn't bode well...

Wot you on about? It's brilliant!

Oh, I am in NICEIC, of course.

Me too, its brilliant ain't it.

Pensdown you click Quote on the thread not after you have clicked 'reply'

Hey it works, cheers guys.

NIC Rule's OK

 

[kingfisher]

I received a nice little brochure from our local building control dept and it explains things very well. It does not section out NICEIC at all, so the person on the end of the phone to me the other day was incorrect to say that the electrician must be NICEIC registered. I could get this scanned if anybodys interested but in a nutshell :-
- If its a DIY then you need to fill in a building regulation application and send to building control.
- If done by electrician then he must be registered with a competents person scheme (part P self-certification scheme) and then no application needs to be filled in.

Now the interesting bit :

- The electrician that tests the work must be registered with a recognised trade body such as NICEIC, ECA & NAPIT (who need not be registered with a competents persons scheme). He then issues a design, installation and test certificate under BS7671 and buildings control will accept this as evidence that Part P has been complied with.

 

[securespark]

NIC Rule's OK

Which rule is OK?

If it's NIC, none of them.

They are at the end of the day a charity set up to help members of the public.

I feel they have got rather too big for their boots and have over many years started insisting on all sorts of OTT standards that do not appear in 7671.

DISCUSS!

 

[dingbat]

I feel they have got rather too big for their boots and have over many years started insisting on all sorts of OTT standards that do not appear in 7671.

This is largely a myth. I certainly have not come across a single concrete example of the NIC insisting anything that exceeds the requirements of BS:7671. The tech manual does, however, recomend some extremely good practice.

 

[plugwash]

don't they interpret "feasiblly supply equipment outside the equipotential zone" as downstairs? i'd say thats at the very least over-zealous interpretation.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

you can use those cable colours until the end of march

And arguably beyond that, indefinitely, if modifying or extending an existing installation...

. . . . .

i'll wait for ban-all-sheds to come and correct it because he is more clued up on part p than me

Aww shucks...

The most recent version of my summary.

. . . . .

This is largely a myth. I certainly have not come across a single concrete example of the NIC insisting anything that exceeds the requirements of BS:7671. The tech manual does, however, recomend some extremely good practice.

Even if true, I really can't understand why people get upset about NICEIC having "higher" standards than BS7671.

ANY BS, or EN, or whatever, lays down minimum standards for things. As long as the product/service/whatever meets those minimum standards, it is allowed to call itself compliant with BS or EN etc.

Why does a minimum standard have to also be a maximum?

Part L lays down minimum standards for thermal insulation, heat loss etc. Imagine a housebuilder, let's call then Cozywarm Ltd, who started building houses with triple glazed windows, airlock doors, massive insulation, heat exchangers etc, and manged to get their thermal efficiency to several times that required by law.

Who would take offence if Cozywarm advertised the virtues of their standards? Which of you would scoff and say "Heat exchangers which extract 90% of the energy from waste water? Who the **** do Cozywarm think they are? It doesn't say that in the building regs. Oh and look - triple glazed windows! Which regulation says you have to have those? It's ridiculous, they're a bunch of w****rs, they don't write the Building Regs."

I'm sorry, but anybody who thinks like that is mistaken. You cannot criticise an organisation for having standards which exceed the legal minimum.

Take JBs under the floorboards, for example. If NICEIC think they are a Bad Thing™ then NICEIC are entitled to require that their registered contractors do not do it, and they are entitled to interpret an imprecisely worded regulation how they see fit when it comes to establishing their best practices and training people.

Of course they are in many ways an arrogant organisation, and of course they are out to increase their sphere of influence, but so what? Do you think that the NVH engineers for Mercedes wouldn't be a tad arrogant, or keen on asserting Mercedes' superiority in a discussion with their unified colleagues from Trabant? Do you think that it is wrong for Renault to use their better-than-required-by-law NCAP rating to sell cars?

Should MK stop making sockets that can carry 20A because BS1363 says they only have to handle 13A?

There is nothing wrong with an organisation seeking to implement higher standards than the legal min.

The only concrete example I know of that I do object to (concrete as in I've seen many NICEIC registered electricians report it) is the way that they try to tell their registered contractors that they may not carry out Inspection & Testing of work not done by another NICEIC contractor, and that people registered as DIs may not do PIRs.

 

[Pensdown]

NIC Rule's OK

Which rule is OK?

If it's NIC, none of them.

They are at the end of the day a charity set up to help members of the public.

I feel they have got rather too big for their boots and have over many years started insisting on all sorts of OTT standards that do not appear in 7671.

DISCUSS!

I did not mean the NIC rules are OK (even though in my opinion they are). I meant, the NIC Rules OK as in Charlton Rules OK Sorry for the confusion.

I have to agree with Ban on this, the higher the standards, cost permitting the better.