Condensation on the frame of new aluminium windows

[Zzzzzz]

Hi

In the summer we had new aluminium window put in, which have a thermal break, but as the weather had turned colder we get condensation on all the window frames apart from the one in the front room.

Do we need to contact the suppliers? Or do something to prevent the condensation?

Please help, thanks

 

[Nooz]

Have a look through this to get some advice. Biggest misnomer is that windows cause condensation so have a look at what's causing the condensation and see how you can combat it.


http://www.ggf.org.uk/publication/condensation_some_causes_some_advice

 

[JohnD]

I expect you have been breathing in that room, which puts water vapour into the air. You have to ventilate that water vapour out, otherwise it will condense on the first cool surface it meets.

How do you ventilate the room?

Is there any wet washing inside your house?

 

[footprints]

Even thermal break alli windows are prone to condensation on the frames the alli is much more prone to it than UPVC just the nature of the material.

 

[typonaut]

Hi

In the summer we had new aluminium window put in, which have a thermal break, but as the weather had turned colder we get condensation on all the window frames apart from the one in the front room.

I've got a similar problem, but with all the windows in my flat. They are aluminium (powder coated or painted white) and appear not to have any thermal break. The frames, once it gets cold outside, are cold to the touch, but the glazed units themselves are ok, and we don't get condensation on the glass.

Can we buy the uPVC trim used by double-glazing firms (to clean up their bodged jobs) to cover the exposed internal aluminium, to provide a thermal break?

I read all this stuff people write about ventilating the rooms and opening windows, all that does is cool the room down so that there's incentive for the air to cool on the window frames. This is a really localised problem, and I don't believe the condensation will just transfer to the next coldest thing.

 

[JohnD]

I read all this stuff people write about ventilating the rooms and opening windows, all that does is cool the room down so that there's incentive for the air to cool on the window frames. This is a really localised problem, and I don't believe the condensation will just transfer to the next coldest thing.

You are mistaken.





I have aluminium framed dg, good ventilation, bathroom extractor, no wet washing draped round the house, so low humidity.

I only get noticeable condensation on the frames in frosty weather if I have been emulsion-painting a room and so delivering litres of water into the air.

The glass is misty sometimes in the bedroom windows in the morning, or in the kitchen if boiling e.g. Christmas puddings without using the extractor hood.

The way to avoid condensation is to take the water vapour out of the house. The cheapest way is through ventilation. Otherwise it will build up until it finds something to condense on.

 

[typonaut]

I read all this stuff people write about ventilating the rooms and opening windows, all that does is cool the room down so that there's incentive for the air to cool on the window frames. This is a really localised problem, and I don't believe the condensation will just transfer to the next coldest thing.

You are mistaken.

About what? The frames are cold, the glazing is not - I get condensation on the frames, not on the glazing. In fact there are parts that were originally raw/anodised aluminium, that have uPVC extrusions over them, and the uPVC does not get condensation.

We have quite heavy curtains, if we leave a gap you can feel the draught coming through, or put you hand behind the curtain and feel the temperature drop (just in the air, without even touching the frames). There is little airflow in this area I will admit, but at the same time we aren't sitting behind the curtains misting the windows up with our exhaled breath.

I have aluminium framed dg…

I don't know about you, but I tend to believe what other people say, unless they are obviously lying. Because I can't know all the facts they have to hand. If someone tells me they have had the same battery on their car for ten years I'd think it was unlikely, because I don't think I've ever had one lasted more than about five, but I wouldn't say it was impossible.

Your experience may not match mine, but that doesn't mean that you are right and I am wrong - it just means that there are more variables to the issue than we can really elucidate.

 

[Meldrew4291]

Hi

In the summer we had new aluminium window put in, which have a thermal break, but as the weather had turned colder we get condensation on all the window frames apart from the one in the front room.

I've got a similar problem, but with all the windows in my flat. They are aluminium (powder coated or painted white) and appear not to have any thermal break. The frames, once it gets cold outside, are cold to the touch, but the glazed units themselves are ok, and we don't get condensation on the glass.

Can we buy the uPVC trim used by double-glazing firms (to clean up their bodged jobs) to cover the exposed internal aluminium, to provide a thermal break?

I read all this stuff people write about ventilating the rooms and opening windows, all that does is cool the room down so that there's incentive for the air to cool on the window frames. This is a really localised problem, and I don't believe the condensation will just transfer to the next coldest thing.

Condensation forms on the coldest surface in a room which often means the old windows. In your case Typonaut the metal frames will probably be colder than the glass, hence you get condensation on the frames and not the glass. Fitting new energy efficient windows does help but as JohnD says rooms still need to be ventilated, especially where there is a lot of condensation or else you could end up transferring the condensation that you used to get on your window somewhere else, eg: you suddenly find a damp spot on your wall that you didn't get before. It is not unknown for this to happen.

You don't seem too convinced that opening your windows will help the situation but (together with turning the heating up) isn't that what most people do when faced with the same problem in a car.

 

[typonaut]

You don't seem too convinced that opening your windows will help the situation but (together with turning the heating up) isn't that what most people do when faced with the same problem in a car.

A car is a really bad analogy for a house/flat. For a start the "heating" in (almost all) cars is a free by-product of the need to cool the internal combustion engine powering the car. In a house/flat one needs to pay for the heating - hence the drive to double glazing in order to reduce the fuel bills that power that heating.

Doesn't it seem a little nonsensical to then open the windows and drive up the cost of your heating because the windows cause a different problem?

I don't doubt that you can remedy condensation by cooling your house to the same temperature as it is outside - but that seems to defeat the object of being in a house in the first place.

I don't generally have a problem with condensation. I do have a problem with condensation specifically on the window frames - I believe that insulation in this area could solve this problem.

By analogy, are you willing to argue that because uPVC frames don't suffer this problem to the same extent, that actually what happens is that the condensation forms elsewhere in the property?

 

[Gazman16]

It may be possible to reduce the condensation with trims but with all the edges and corners etc there would be no really neat way of doing it and would probably look pretty awful.

Several links and ways to reduce condensation were posted in this topic:
//www.diynot.com/diy/threads/condensation-on-inside-of-windows.414344/

I must say to anyone thinking about aluminum windows that I personally think they are more suited to industrial properties and large heavy doors.

I used to work for a company that only made and fitted aluminum and at the time I thought they were great but once you see some of the advances and designs of PVC they are so much better.
I once read that aluminum is the 4th most conductive material of heat and cold, Any time you touch an ali window they are cold so will always be prone to condensation.

 

[JohnD]

I don't doubt that you can remedy condensation by cooling your house to the same temperature as it is outside - but that seems to defeat the object of being in a house in the first place.

The purpose, and the effect, of controlled ventilation is not to make the house cold, but to remove the excessive water vapour in the stale air. Condensation is caused by excessive humidity.

 

[crank39]

We don't make this stuff up, download this and read...its all in there

http://www.ggf.org.uk/publication/condensation_some_causes_some_advice

 

[typonaut]

I don't doubt that you can remedy condensation by cooling your house to the same temperature as it is outside - but that seems to defeat the object of being in a house in the first place.

The purpose, and the effect, of controlled ventilation is not to make the house cold, but to remove the excessive water vapour in the stale air. Condensation is caused by excessive humidity.

Here's the science: the air has the capacity to hold a certain amount of water, this is called humidity, and is expressed as a percentage of that capacity. Hot air has a higher capacity and cold air has a lower capacity. When hot air cools, ie when it comes into contact with cold surfaces or cooler air the water vapour in the air condenses into droplets - this may fall as rain or as condensation on cooler surfaces.

Typical ways of reducing condensation are heating the cool surfaces (so that the air does not cool and thus reduce its capacity to carry water vapour) and/or circulating air over these surfaces. Circulating air does not reduce humidity, it just prevents localised cooling.

I do not have a problem with humidity, I have a problem with localised cooling - I hope you can grasp the difference. This is because there appears to be no thermal break in the aluminium frames. This is transferring the cold into the room/heat out of the room, which a plastic covering would prevent.

If you were to put a plastic film on your car windows, the likelihood would be that you would reduce the chances of condensation on the windows, and the condensation would not form on other interior parts of the car. This is because plastic is a better insulator than glass.

As I wrote previously, please provide the argument that supports uPVC windows not suffering the same condensation issues as aluminium windows, and the condensation then forming in other parts of the home.

 

[JohnD]

Here's the science

'Bye.

 

[Meldrew4291]

In none of your examples are you actually removing the water vapour that is causing the condensation. Water vapour in your home is created by very simple things.....Breathing, cooking, baths, showers etc. If water vapour is trapped in your house it WILL condensate on any Cold point. The only way of getting water vapour out of your property is to allow ventilation, usually by opening a window, or you could fit an extractor fan that are widely available to use in Double Glazing.

In answer to your questions on Aluminium vs Upvc...Aluminium is a metal and inherently colder than upvc. All modern upvc has energy efficient glass and multi chambers within the frames to help eliminate condensation, but no window will ever eliminate condensation , that is impossible due to the reasons in the above paragraph, all you will do is move the water vapour to another ' cold ' spot in the property, unless you ventilate. As for putting a trim over the existing Aluminium, i'm afraid i can not see this helping that much, as the base frame will still be cold, so the ' trim ' will also be colder, and the water vapour will still condensate. As has been stated many times on here by people who know what they are talking about, ventilation is the key with excess condensation.