convert spurs to ring?

[DeadJoe]

I've been browsing this site for a while now. Last time I posted it was to ask for advice about lighting, and I got some really helpful advice which has helped me to sort out some problems in the lighting circuit - my CFLs don't flash all night when they are off any more! And they are earthed...

I am after a bit more advice now. Our kitchen has what used to be a larder area, now without a door, and with the fridge/freezer and washing machine in there. The power to this room is provided by two spurs coming from a single junction box in the ceiling above the room. It looks like someone broke into the ring at some point, added the junction box, and then sent the two spurs from it down to the larder.

At the end of one of the spurs is a single socket - the fridge/freezer is connected there, and then the power is looped out of the socket and on to an outside light. I'm going to do something about the outside light - probably dump it altogether. Then this spur would have just a single socket at the end.

But I am concerned about the other spur. This one goes to a double socket - the washing machine is connected there, and then down to another junction box with armoured cable going across the garden (pinned to a wall, just above ground level) and into the shed, where a consumer unit with old wire fuses distributes the power to a double socket and a single light.

Question: The second spur - Would it be better if it was part of the ring as far as the double socket, and then the shed supply could be spurred from there? I am concerned about the possibility of overloading the spur as things stand - suppose someone plugged a tumble-dryer into the double?

If the answer to this is 'yes', then it would make sense to convert the other spur as well, and remove the junction box under the floor altogether - if I can find the sockets which are either side of it. I believe using junction boxes in this way is not recommended practice any longer.

Better still, I guess, would be if the shed was on its own radial from the house CU - but there isn't a spare space in the CU to dedicate to the shed...

What do you think?

PS I know this is almost definitely notifiable, and Part P. I'm more interested in the wiring than the law at this point.

 

[ColJack]

swear blind the door was still on when you did it and it's not notifiable.. ( not in a kitchen then and it's replacing a damaged cable ... it does look damaged doesn't it ... )

yes make them both part of the ring and the spur to the shed from an FCU or even RCD-FCU if you want the added safety ( since the shed CU seems to be missing an RCD and you don't mention RCD protection for the sockets... )

 

[sparkwright]

You should confirm that the 'original' two cables at the junction box are directly on the ring; in case the junction box was connected into a cable that was in fact a spur going somewhere. If you see what I mean.

To test if the two cables are part of the ring;
With the power OFF,
check for continuity between L and L
N and N
E and E

Continuity should prove this part of the circuit is a ring, and not a spur.

 

[DeadJoe]

Sorry, my mistake. When I said 'without a door', I meant 'behind a door'...

Yes, the cable is damaged. A large part of its length is just pinned to the wall beneath the window - absolutely zero protection against damage. And indeed, some of the insulation does seem to be quite badly scuffed by someone moving a washing machine about...

Thanks for the advice - that seems quite straightforward.

I'll have to have a look and see if it is possible to clear a space in the CU for the shed. I know there is an outside light at the front of the property which is on its own separate radial from the CU. Maybe I can put that somewhere else to free up space in the CU for a dedicated radial.

The ring is already on an RCD along with everything else - so an FCU sounds like the way to go (unless it will help to have a second RCD for the shed?).

The armoured cable comes into the house at about the height of a wall socket, and the current arrangement is not nice - I have a circular zinc plated conduit connector there, with the feed going in at the top and held in place with a compression-type fitting. It just looks soooo wrong! Given that it's going to be behind the washing machine, and there's always the potential for splash, am I right in thinking that a waterproof enclosure there, with the FCU further up the wall would be the way to go? That would also make it more obvious to someone if the fuse ever went...

 

[ColJack]

no need for a second RCD, I only suggested one as I thought I read you say something about old wire fuses, so I assumed that the CU wouldn't have RCD protection in that case.. I see now you were talking about the shed CU.. ( I'd advise about swapping that for a decent shed CU with breakers but then we're back to notifying again.. )

 

[DeadJoe]

Thank you, ColJack - it all makes enough sense now.

sparkwright - thank you, too. I somehow missed your reply earlier. Yes, checking I haven't got a spur coming off another spur sounds like a good idea. I wouldn't be at all surprised.

I wish I'd thought to take photographs of what had been done to the lighting circuit. When we moved in, there was a metal chandelier thing hanging in the sitting room (now gone). Someone had made an effort to earth it, but they had used a length of braided steel wire (like an old washing line) covered with green/yellow sleeving (in parts) which eventually terminated at a metal post hammered into the ground outside, next to the proper earth spike. The metal switch for the light was earthed by a bit of green wire stuffed into the earth bar in the CU - no screw or anything. I'm not expecting much from the ring main...