cscs cards

[stevethespreader]

just thought i would share something that i was told today, they are now only taking nqq2 or higher on sitework "i new that was going to happen"_ but i want to get a spread on to work with me he has a normal operative card, i was told that i could get him onsite with the card "but" the moment he started putting plaster on the walls he would be breaking the law, so any spread not got nvq2 or higher will no longer be able to ply his trade onsite, also i asked a question that baffles me how can an improver go out onsite and learn his trade, if he has no nvq2 card because all hes got is an operative card and is not qualified yet? the answer is he has to go on an nvq course so it looks like no more learning onsite , i still cant get my head round that one, also i see there is an nvq2 for machine plastering now, so you have machine plastering , plastering, tape and joint ect ect all with there own nv2 specific cards so if u wanted to go out onsite and do a bit of tape and jointing , or machine plastering you cant unless you have that trade speciic card, there breaking the trade down into segments by the look of it

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Is it a legal requirement that on-site workers need to have a CSCS card?
I understood CSCS cards have no legal standing what so ever, so therefore they would be no one breaking any laws.

 

[stevethespreader]

Is it a legal requirement that on-site workers need to have a CSCS card?
I understood CSCS cards have no legal standing what so ever, so therefore they would be no one breaking any laws.

well ive only shared what i was told so now ive googled it and aparantly its the mcg that are insisting on the cscs cards and anyone trying to get work on one of their sites without a card will not be allowed on , and it looks like if you did try and hood wink a spead on without an nvq card it would be one of their laws so you would be offsite , i was told it happened to some boarders last week, any way looks like you are right no actual legal requairements as in legal legal have a read its interesting http://businessdatabase.indicator.c...cscs_cards_required_by_law_/UKTAHSAR_EU070602

 

[roughcaster]

I can see the reasoning behind the CSCS cards, but now consider this. I don't have one and have never had one. As i said in another post, i served my time as a plasterer and overall, i have been plastering for 50 years come 2014. So i wouldn't be able to get a job on site without that card, yet someone, anyone who has been on a plastering course for a week or so, and has a CSCS card, would be able to get a job on site before me. I've been self employed since 1985 and in all that time most of the jobs i've done were private/domestic. In the late 80's and 90's i did get regular self employed work from Serco and then Turners, at RAF Lossiemouth. The only thing the DOE and later the PSA wanted from me, was my ability to do the work they required, prove i had up to date public liabilty insurance, and allow them to do a detailed security check on me.Nowadays, even with 50 years of experience in plastering, rendering, roughcasting, floor screeding etc etc, without that CSCS card, i wouldn't be able to get a job on site. I know that age also plays a part in getting a job and i'm not on about that side of it, i'm on about a CSCS card being more important than experience., or is it just another money spinning scam by the powers that be???

 

[Micilin]

They are a sham.

 

[stevethespreader]

I can see the reasoning behind the CSCS cards, but now consider this. I don't have one and have never had one. As i said in another post, i served my time as a plasterer and overall, i have been plastering for 50 years come 2014. So i wouldn't be able to get a job on site without that card, yet someone, anyone who has been on a plastering course for a week or so, and has a CSCS card, would be able to get a job on site before me. I've been self employed since 1985 and in all that time most of the jobs i've done were private/domestic. In the late 80's and 90's i did get regular self employed work from Serco and then Turners, at RAF Lossiemouth. The only thing the DOE and later the PSA wanted from me, was my ability to do the work they required, prove i had up to date public liabilty insurance, and allow them to do a detailed security check on me.Nowadays, even with 50 years of experience in plastering, rendering, roughcasting, floor screeding etc etc, without that CSCS card, i wouldn't be able to get a job on site. I know that age also plays a part in getting a job and i'm not on about that side of it, i'm on about a CSCS card being more important than experience., or is it just another money spinning scam by the powers that be???

roughcaster did you an indentured apprenticeship? if so you will be able to apply for a gold card which is the 4th card down they recognize the old apprenticeship http://www.constructionhelpline.com/cscscard.php

 

[roy c]

I myself can plaster, render, roughcast and dash, screed and lay floors., lay slates or tiles and felt and batten roofs, fibre-glassing , drainage work, tile kitchens , bathrooms , floors, stud work, ground work stone-work and I did a two year apprentice- ship at the Midlands Gas Research station when England changed over from "towns gas to Natural Gas" (but oppted out of it to travel the world!! ), and have the knowledge to turn up on jobs(private) and put things right or advise people how to do it.The only time I worked on a site was in the 70's when I hod carried for brickies on a Mc Alpines site in N.Devon building a cheese factory (Express Dairy's).That was the last time I did site work and thought this is not for me .So when I finally found my "vocation"I learned to plaster/render and thought the way forward was to do private work, but I knew I was not going to make a living out of plastering/rendering privately. But a guy I met who started a company doing timber treatment and dry/wet rot and damproofing asked me to work for him. All our work was gauranteed by the Chemical companies that we used..We used, Cuprinol, Vandex,Remtox and Sovereign just to name a few..And I learned alot of different methods of plastering and products used by these companies that were away from the normal run of the mill rendering and plastering, We used a lot of "one coat", renderlite, and also scratch coated walls with sand and cement with "additives" from the companies whose products we were using that we had "treated " for damp and dry rot/wet rot, and used bitumin or syntapruff painted on walls horizontally and vertically and then blinded with sand and one coated them after .All of this was on the instruction of the Companies that supplied the chemicals and products we used. (and they gauranteed our work.)But the point I am making is that this was my introduction into "remedial" work and making sure I never worked or relied on site work. So when I hear of all these "regs"and bulls hit that is now becoming the "norm " for competant tradesmen it makes me wonder why are they making it so hard for "competant " tradesmen to earn a living!!! My son now is coming up to 17 and I have tried to guide him thru the careers that are open to him and he is going to college and taking the engineering coarse ( which is very diverse ) and the thing he is "shining" at is CAD he grasps it alot easier than anyone on the coarse because when he was younger I sat with him and and introduced him to angles and degrees and geometry that I was taught in the 50/60's and he picked it up straight away,So maybe he will go down that route... but who knows ,,Sorry for the rant, but at the end of the day I have no pieces of paper to say what I can do or have done but I have a lot of photographic evidence and my word.We are all human a lot of us have kids that we dont want to follow in our own footsteps.. It's a shame but "Good Honest Old School Tradesmen" are dying out and will never be replaced!!

 

[Nige F]

We`ll be replaced alright - by Centrica But @ least the building game ( Gas excepted ) isn`t like the NHS Death Factories

 

[roy c]

We`ll be replaced alright - by Centrica But @ least the building game ( Gas excepted ) isn`t like the NHS Death Factories

Good job I have shares in Centrica then, eh Nige

 

[Alastairreid]

Were those cards not introduced to bring some sort of control and regulation to the industry? The main emphasis being health and safety.

I dont have a card either as i have never needed one but vaguely remember being sent some blurb inviting me to apply for one, i may be wrong and stand to be corrected but when they were first introduced the application process allowed you to apply for specific cards without having had served a recognised apprenticeship.. but were issued if you could prove to some degree you had been practicing a specific trade for a minimum period of time...a bit like grandfathers rights.
This only lasted for a short time before you had to produce your city guilds papers to gain your entitlement to the trade cards.
I dont do site work so hope never to need one.

I think the cards are eventually going to be forced on us all! look at the various construction vacancy websites 9 out of 10 prospective employers stipulate these cards before they even open your cv.
It seems being an able tradesman comes second to knowing the colours of fire extinguishers.

 

[stevethespreader]

It seems being an able tradesman comes second to knowing the colours of fire extinguishers.

its not a question of just health and saftey anymore having just a cscs card isnent enough it must be a "trade specific" cscs card this is so they have some idea of your capabilities, if you have an nvq card then they know at least you have some skills and better still if you have a gold card which you can apply for if you have served an aprenticeship they would know they really have a competent tradesman, the bar had to be set some where i suppose and it looks like the bar is nvq2 minimum, just the normal operative card will soon be no good, as most are asking for trade specific now

 

[Alastairreid]

Well health and safety aside whats the point in the cards?

Is trade papers not proof enough anymore? obviously not!

 

[roy c]

Instead of having all this documentation there should be a place you attend and prove you have the capabillities to do the work that is required of you. Then you get a proper trade card with your picture on it and signed by an approved competant examiner that knows a good tradesman when he sees their work!!!

 

[gregers]

i too do not have 1 of these cards,and only once have i had to show my certs in c&g in over 20 years.
seems the the knowledge of any good foreman(person )was enough for him to judge whether you were any good or not.on 1 job i had the pleasure of sorting out i was told within 10 mins i was ok.the which apparently took 2 chippys YEAH RIGHT,over half a day to cock up.i came along and said the whole lot needs removing before i can even start.
like in any trade you have good 1s and bad 1s THEN you have the chancers who havnt got a clue.

 

[stevethespreader]

Instead of having all this documentation there should be a place you attend and prove you have the capabillities to do the work that is required of you. Then you get a proper trade card with your picture on it and signed by an approved competant examiner that knows a good tradesman when he sees their work!!!

roy what you have just described here no less is the nvq, you prove you can do the work, a competant assesor watches you work onsite "osat"to see what your works like if hes happy it gets passed , then you have all the paperwork (knowlage) + the work that the assessor has seen you do and taken picture of it passed by an independant iv (internal verifier) the iv will also look at pictures of other jobs you have been on and will want phone numbers of employers you have worked for so he can check , also you have to have pics of yourself on jobs showing skimming rendering float and set direct bond drylining ect, after all this is passed by the iv then you will get your nvq2 card with the trade you are in printed on it