Digression Of The Day

[ban-all-sheds]

Albeit only 'informative' 2.1(i) of Appendix 7 appears to indicate that red is still acceptable for 'identification' (which, as we know, can be achieved by oversleeving) of line in an 'old' (I presume 'old colours') cable.

That talks about what to do at the interface of old & new colours.

Table 51 specifies brown, irrespective of what colour is being oversleeved.

 

[JohnW2]

The problem will lie with the semi-skilled or DIYer who knows "a bit" and ASSuMEs that the install is correctly identified at terminations but they are lacking enough knowledge to know that something can't be right or testing methods to prove it. (Yes BAN I know they shouldn't be fiddling anyway )

I suppose so, but I can't really see that it results in any dangers, or really any problems/confusions. All they need to understand is that an oversleeved black or blue (whether sleeved with red or brown, in either case) is being used as a line conductor. What misleading (or dangerous) misinterpretation of brown or red oversleeving could they make?

It can't be worse than the daft 'mixed colours' stickers - by refering to "colours to two versions of BS7671) they are almost guaranteeing that it wil be least understood by those who most need to be warned about it!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Albeit only 'informative' 2.1(i) of Appendix 7 appears to indicate that red is still acceptable for 'identification' (which, as we know, can be achieved by oversleeving) of line in an 'old' (I presume 'old colours') cable.

That talks about what to do at the interface of old & new colours.

Sure, but it includes the words "..the old cables are correctly identified by the colour red for line ..." - which seems to be saying that, for an 'old (colours) cable', red remains the 'correct identification' for line (and we know that 'identification' can be by oversleeving).

Minutiae of the regs apart, what matters is that when blue or black is used as a line conductor, it should be oversleeved, and I personally don't think it matters a jot whether red or brown is used, regardless of which colour is being oversleeved.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sure, but it includes the words "..the old cables are correctly identified by the colour red for line ..." - which seems to be saying that, for an 'old (colours) cable', red remains the 'correct identification' for line (and we know that 'identification' can be by oversleeving).

"ARE correctly identified", i.e. existing identification, not adding identification to correct a black conductor being used as line.

Minutiae of the regs apart, what matters is that when blue or black is used as a line conductor, it should be oversleeved, and I personally don't think it matters a jot whether red or brown is used, regardless of which colour is being oversleeved.

Fairy nuff.

 

[Robin0577]

Minutiae of the regs apart, what matters is that when blue or black is used as a line conductor, it should be oversleeved, and I personally don't think it matters a jot whether red or brown is used, regardless of which colour is being oversleeved.

Kind Regards, John

I would tend to agree that it doesn't really matter, on the basis that someone who understands what they're doing won't be confused much by either approach and someone who doesn't is just as likely to be confused by either.

 

[JohnW2]

Sure, but it includes the words "..the old cables are correctly identified by the colour red for line ..." - which seems to be saying that, for an 'old (colours) cable', red remains the 'correct identification' for line (and we know that 'identification' can be by oversleeving).

"ARE correctly identified", i.e. existing identification, not adding identification to correct a black conductor being used as line.

That is, IMO, an unsuccesful attempt to stretch English grammar. What do you understand by the sentence ... "In November 2013, it will be acceptable install blue-insulated conductors as live conductors, provided that they ARE correctly identified by brown oversleeving"? Would you really equate that 'are' with "i.e. existing identification". "...are correctly identified.." says nothing about whether the correct identification is/was put in place in the past, present or future; it relates to the prevailing situation at a particular point in time.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Minutiae of the regs apart, what matters is that when blue or black is used as a line conductor, it should be oversleeved, and I personally don't think it matters a jot whether red or brown is used, regardless of which colour is being oversleeved.

I would tend to agree that it doesn't really matter, on the basis that someone who understands what they're doing won't be confused much by either approach and someone who doesn't is just as likely to be confused by either.

Indeed. If they are confused (due to lack of knowledge) they will probably be confused by the existance of oversleeving, per se, regardless of its colour. Anyone with an iota of knowledge about things electrical will at least suspect that a black or (harmonised) blue is being used as something other than neutral (probably L or S/L) if it is oversleeved with any colour, even 'sky blue pink'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

In an installation with mixed colours, would you sleeve an unsleeved switched live black with red, or brown?

Yes.

 

[JohnW2]

In an installation with mixed colours, would you sleeve an unsleeved switched live black with red, or brown?

Yes.

Good answer

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That is, IMO, an unsuccesful attempt to stretch English grammar.

IMO not, given that the context is, as clearly stated, what to do at the interface of old and new when adding new.

 

[JohnW2]

That is, IMO, an unsuccesful attempt to stretch English grammar.

IMO not, given that the context is, as clearly stated, what to do at the interface of old and new when adding new.

This really is, IMO, extreme quibbling for the sake of it. I see no sensible reason why, at the time the time new (different colours) cable is installed, the old cable cannot be brought up to 'correct identification' (for old cable) by the addition of some red sleeving. All that matters is 'the future', and in that future, no-one looking at this interface would have a clue (or care a damn) as to whether the red sleeving had been applied before or after the new cable was installed!

As I've said, when we're not quibbling, we should just be thankful that there is some oversleeving, and not fuss about whether it is brown or red.

Kind Regards, John