DIY Electrical Changes Made?

[oshta]

Whats the deal if you have changes/additions thats been made to your property by someone not qualified to do the work if you wanted to get an electrical survey signed off.

 

[SaladFingers]

Depends on what you mean by survey.

Do you wish to perform some work and get someone to certify it?

Or do you know of some work that has taken place in the past and now wish to have an overall inspection, test and report?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Whats the deal if you have changes/additions thats been made to your property by someone not qualified to do the work if you wanted to get an electrical survey signed off.

Depends when changes were made and what the changes were/are?
and the reason for the report?
Could you please expand?

 

[ericmark]

The qualification required to do electrical work is to be able to do electrical work. Although there are exams to show employers so they can judge at a glance there are no exams which one must pass before doing electrical work.

There are laws about registering work in special locations and as a result the LABC do have the option to refuse permission to start work where they feel the person does not have the skills required.

I would think what you are asking is what to do when paperwork is missing.

The minor works and installation certificates can only be issued by person controlling the work. No one can sign it off for them. However it is control not doing the work so the master can sign for work done by the apprentice as he was in control.

The work can be inspected post completion but an electrical installation condition report is issued not an installation certificate.

Where work is done in an emergency the LABC can be informed after the event. So there is provision for them to issue a completion certificate after the work has been done.

Work planned before 2004 does not require a completion certificate and the installation certificate although required by BS7671 is not a legal requirement as BS7671 is not law although can be used in a court of law.

So my dad 89 years old can do work on his house where there is no special location and test and fill in the installation certificate even though he has no formal qualifications. Where the problem would lie is if some thing went wrong he does not have PLI so there may be a problem claiming from him. But he has the skill so nothing to stop him doing the work and testing and signing it off.

If some one does not have the skill required to test and fill in the installation certificate then they should not be in control of the work being done. There is no grey area either one can do it all or you should not touch it. There is no "I'll get some one else to test it" either you test it or you should not attempt the work without supervision.

To get an electrician who in turn agrees you can dig a trench is OK as the electrician is in control. It's not who does the work it's who is in control.

 

[oshta]

Cut to the chase, if you buy a house/lockupgarage/industrialunit and its clear the previous owner has wired it themself or certainly done a lot of hacking it about with a mix of old and new colours and you want paperwork to say its safe. If its unsafe and bits need changing that can be changed but what about the fact its all been installed after they should have been partp and notifying.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Cut to the chase, if you buy a house/lockupgarage/industrialunit and its clear the previous owner has wired it themself or certainly done a lot of hacking it about with a mix of old and new colours and you want paperwork to say its safe.

Simples - before you buy it you tell the vendor that you won't do so unless he provides certificates for any electrical work done.

If it's too late for that then the vendor is going to provide SFA now, so it's down to you to pay an electrician to inspect the installation.

but what about the fact its all been installed after they should have been partp and notifying.

Nobody cares.

If your solicitor asked about notifiable work, and the vendor lied, then speak to your solicitor about what grounds you have, and the likelihood of success etc, for taking the vendor to court.

 

[SaladFingers]

If your solicitor asked about notifiable work, and the vendor lied, then speak to your solicitor about what grounds you have, and the likelihood of success etc, for taking the vendor to court.

I don't think you'd have much success at taking the vendor to court over it. At the most, if LABC are really bothered, they'd get involved, but the fine if any will be levvied on the home owner and the home owner at the time may not be the person who did the work.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Cut to the chase, if you buy a house/lockupgarage/industrialunit and its clear the previous owner has wired it themself or certainly done a lot of hacking it about with a mix of old and new colours and you want paperwork to say its safe. If its unsafe and bits need changing that can be changed but what about the fact its all been installed after they should have been partp and notifying.

Part P only concerns the domestic side, the industrial unit is Part P excluded, unless these buildings share a domestic supply.
You need firstly to talk to the solicitor regarding any document, certificates or building control applications/completion notices.
If they are not any, it would be very difficult to confirm, that the installations have been erected in a compliant way, without removing all surfaces that cover the cables.
The only other route would be to have an "electrical installation conditional report (EICR)" performed on these buildings. This would inform you of the general condition of these installation, most non-conformities and suitability for continued service.
There will however be limitation to the extent of the inspection, as often the client does not want the fabric of the building removed, such as plastered walls and various flooring materials amongst other things.
So it not always possible to confirm the routing and methods of the installation of cables or whether jointing of cables comply to the standards.

 

[ericmark]

Cut to the chase, if you buy a house/lockupgarage/industrialunit and its clear the previous owner has wired it themself or certainly done a lot of hacking it about with a mix of old and new colours and you want paperwork to say its safe. If its unsafe and bits need changing that can be changed but what about the fact its all been installed after they should have been partp and notifying.

If it is its clear the previous owner has wired it themselves then as the new owner it is up to you to ensure it's made safe. Paperwork is only required with domestic with the completion certificate but without some form of written statement one would have a hard job showing the HSE you had shown a duty of care. The law says heath and safety reports must be written but this could be an email for example. So telling your boss you saw there was oil spilt is not good enough must give him a note even if back of fag packet.

The onus does change with time. I was advised that after one year any defects known would be down to me. That writing to a contractor detailing faults to be corrected would not shift the blame should anything go wrong.

As long as there is a notice to say mixture of colours then not really a problem. You will not get paperwork to say it's safe. Best is paper work to say no fault found. However there will always be faults. Once highlighted with paperwork in real terms the clock is ticking and with industrial premises you need to then write a correction plan to show that measures have been taken to correct in the fullness of time. The HSE will normally allow some time but they do expect a written statement to say how long.

Letter to solicitor or from solicitor shows you are aware of the faults. If after that letter you got a shock then some of the blame would be yours are you were aware of the problem.

It is a duel edged sword it is no good saying it should not have been done the question would be once you found the faults why did you continue using the premises.

Be very careful.

 

[oshta]

So to cut a long story short even if it should be notifiable work actaully regardless of who did it when and if it was notified or not actually all you need is a EICR pass?

 

[JohnW2]

So to cut a long story short even if it should be notifiable work actaully regardless of who did it when and if it was notified or not actually all you need is a EICR pass?

Regardless of what you might 'need', the fact is that an EICR is all you can get 'after the event'. As PBoD says, although an EICR 'pass' will go a long way to reassure, there will usually be limits to what it has been able to investigate - so the 'pass' cannot usually guarantee to have identified all non-compliances, or even all potential 'safety' issues.

Kind Regards, John

 

[oshta]

Sounds right.

 

[oshta]

At the most, if LABC are really bothered, they'd get involved, but the fine if any will be levvied on the home owner and the home owner at the time may not be the person who did the work.

What would they fine you for is that just for domestic. How big are the fines at worst case?

 

[JohnW2]

At the most, if LABC are really bothered, they'd get involved, but the fine if any will be levvied on the home owner and the home owner at the time may not be the person who did the work.

What would they fine you for is that just for domestic. How big are the fines at worst case?

The reality is that, for a domestic installation, it (fines) just won't happen. As has been point out, if it's not domestic, then LABC (if relevant) would probably be the least of your worries if there were an unsafe electrical installation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SaladFingers]

At the most, if LABC are really bothered, they'd get involved, but the fine if any will be levvied on the home owner and the home owner at the time may not be the person who did the work.

What would they fine you for is that just for domestic. How big are the fines at worst case?

If they could prove the work was notifiable (dates etc) then the fine would be for non notification, if poor standard, then not complying. Don't know what the fine would be. Or they may say get it sorted within X time and no fine.