Do I have separate zone heating.? Help/ advice wanted please

[Husk24]

I have moved into a house recently. I have a system boiler with a water cylinder. Downstairs I have two timer/switches, one controls the heating downstairs and the second one controls the heating upstairs, however in order to turn the heating upstairs I have to also have to have the heating switched on downstairs, the boiler does not switch on just with having the upstairs timer on.

I have spoken to an installer on the telephone today about isolating upstairs heating to downstairs so I can turn the heating on upstairs without having the downstairs heating. He said it appears to be a electrical installation issue, he says if l have two separate timers the piping should be all separately zoned and more likely not wired properly.

Any experts here comment on this please? is it an electrical issue or something to do with piping /system?

I also have a thermostat for downstairs heating which switches the heating on/off downstairs only.

Thanks in advance!

 

[stem]

I have spoken to an installer on the telephone today about isolating upstairs heating to downstairs so I can turn the heating on upstairs without having the downstairs heating. He said it appears to be a electrical installation issue, he says if l have two separate timers the piping should be all separately zoned and more likely not wired properly.

From the information you give that sounds reasonable to me.

The building regulations that came into force in 2010 stipulate that new homes should have two separate zones, one for the living areas and one for the sleeping areas, so that they can be controlled separately to save energy. To do this the upstairs timeswitch and thermostat, should work completely independently of the downstairs timeswitch and thermostat, and vice versa.

Whilst it could be a wiring fault, it is not necessarily so. There may just be a component failure. For example, there should be three motorised valves, one each for: upstairs, downstairs and the hot water. The motorised valves have an internal switch that starts the boiler when the valve is fully open. It may just be that the switch in the upstairs motorised valve has failed and so whilst the valve opens, it doesn't start the boiler. When the downstairs valve opens that does start the boiler, the upstairs also heats up.

A professional who knows how to troubleshoot with the appropriate test gear would be able to find out quite quickly the cause of the problem.

 

[Husk24]

Hi Stem, thanks for your reply

Interesting point, one thing I want to clarify is that when I switch downstairs on, it does not switch upstairs, it does only after I switch the upstairs timer on which is also located downstairs, but if the downstairs was switched off, switching the timer for upstairs doesn’t do anything. Hope that makes sense.

Both timers are located downstairs.

 

[stem]

That's clear and was my understanding from your original post.

You seem concerned about both timers being located downstairs that's quite normal, provided the thermostat is in the zone that it is controlling.

but if the downstairs was switched off, switching the timer for upstairs doesn’t do anything.

That's what led me to suspect the upstairs valve's internal switch, if it doesn't work, the boiler won't come on until the downstairs valve opens and switches it on boiler on.

You haven't mentioned Hot water, is there a third timeswitch for that somewhere? Smaller properties were allowed to have one time switch controlling two thermostats, just want to check that isn't the case with yours. If you don't have a third timeswitch are you sure the second one isn't for the hot water.

 

[Husk24]

The downstairs timer also is for water heating, see pic.

I have two timers as stated previously, one for upstairs other downstairs, a thermostat in hallway and a room temperature controller for conservatory which only controls the conservatory radiators.

 

[stem]

OK that's fine thanks for the clarification. Just wanted to make sure you actually had separate time switches for upstairs and downstairs. As you do then what was said previously still stands. It might be wired up incorrectly, or there may be a simple fault.

 

[Husk24]

I have recently had my boiler replaced to a new, but I didn’t enquire with the installer about the above situation, what I do remember is the installer was trying to find/locate the valve for upstairs heating and couldn’t find it. Didn’t mean anything to me though.

 

[stem]

Then that's another possibility. The upstairs motorised valve hasn't actually been fitted!

 

[Husk24]

Ahhh right, if that is the case then is it easy to get it fitted? What I don’t want is to have the floors lifted for new pipes etc, is this usually located near the boiler?

 

[Husk24]

Here are pics of the setup, I know one of the valves switches the conservatory on only.

 

[stem]

Difficult to see in the photos as they only give a snapshot (no pun intended) rather than the big picture. I thought it was perhaps a new build or at least after 2010 when the regulations came out, but it looks to be an older system that has undergone quite a few alterations.

I can only see three valves though, and if one is for downstairs, one is for hot water and the other is for the conservatory..........It doesn't mean there isn't an upstairs zone valve somewhere else, but normally they are close together.

How easy is it to fit one if it doesn't exist? Unfortunately that's a how long is a piece of string question. It depends upon the layout of the existing pipework and how the upstairs and downstairs relate to each other, if the upstairs doesn't have it's own pipe system and is tapped into the downstairs system it could be quite extensive and then there is also the wiring to consider. How much of it is there and what it is actually connected to.

I'm don't have any plumbing qualifications (my qualifications are electrical) So, maybe those who are can better advise on that aspect.

 

[Husk24]

Interesting. So if there isn’t a valve for upstairs, how does the timer switch the radiators supply upstairs? I will see if I can locate the valve if there is one but it’s definitely not in the boiler room. My house was built in 1990.

 

[stem]

Interesting. So if there isn’t a valve for upstairs, how does the timer switch the radiators supply upstairs?

Indeed. Good question. If the downstairs heats up and the upstairs doesn't it suggests there is one somewhere. Possibly tapped into the downstairs radiator pipework, so it could be a plumbing problem after all.

 

[Husk24]

Nothing in cupboard upstairs either

 

[Dan Robinson]

Your system has been installed / modified by a total gibbon. I'm on the wrong end of a bottle of Cote du Rhone and one of my gin and tonics which should be declared a WMD, but those pictures are not showing anything promising.