Driveways and drainage

[Nakajo]

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[Footsoldier888]

Is work continuing then??? As you said you are having a path and patio installed too, it all adds up to quite a big job potentially.

Some soakaway info here:

http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain08.html

 

[Tayjen]

I've discussed our expectations at length with him and he knows we're trouble if it doesn't meet the legal requirements. Court basically. I don't mind going to court, it's a day off work with pay.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I've discussed our expectations at length with him and he knows we're trouble if it doesn't meet the legal requirements. Court basically. I don't mind going to court, it's a day off work with pay.

It cannot meet legal requirements by doing a dropped kerb without permission in place beforehand and using either the highways themselves or an approved highways contractor to do the dropped kerb.

 

[Tayjen]

I've discussed our expectations at length with him and he knows we're trouble if it doesn't meet the legal requirements. Court basically. I don't mind going to court, it's a day off work with pay.

It cannot meet legal requirements by doing a dropped kerb without permission in place beforehand and using either the highways themselves or an approved highways contractor to do the dropped kerb.

Then I'm going get that for free. I'm aware of the ramifications and will make good legally afterwards if correct procedures aren't followed. The council did say that many building firms apply for application for their customers so I think its fair to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I should mention that the reputable builder who did our extension did all the work off contract as payment was in arrears so this is potentially more secure.

edit: if you read above the council don't care who does the work.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I didn't realise you'd spoken with Highways and not planning.

 

[Footsoldier888]

[/QUOTE=

Actually its mostly contract law and the quote is the vaguest type of contract. I love vague because there is so much room for interpretation. It simply has 4 clauses. 'I agree to pay the installer on completion', 'I understand that the good remain the property of the installer until paid for in full', the tautological 'I understand these terms and conditions' and 'I waive my right to the 14-day cooling off period', which is as useful as a chocolate teapot.

[/QUOTE]

But perhaps a court would simply look at the contract you agreed above, which has no mention of the kerb. I doubt his quote included a clause requiring him to get approval from the Highways Agency. If it was that important to the contract why wasn't it one of those clauses???

Don't forget the goods remain the property of the installer so can perhaps be legally removed if payment is not made.

 

[Tayjen]

I didn't realise you'd spoken with Highways and not planning.

I spoke to both. Planning (District) were pretty useless about the kerb and told me to speak to County.

But perhaps a court would simply look at the contract you agreed above, which has no mention of the kerb. I doubt his quote included a clause requiring him to get approval from the Highways Agency. If it was that important to the contract why wasn't it one of those clauses???

Yes, there is no mention of the kerb. Originally, I expected I would have to go the same route as my neighbour, two applications and an approved contractor for about £700, so when this builder offered to do it for £300 we were pleasantly surprised. He said he does them in bulk every couple of months, hence why its not on the contract. Seeing as applications take 6-8 weeks I'm not surprised its not on the contract as it would extend the main job.

There is a good chance we've scared him off from doing illegal work and he'll do a runner after paving the driveway in which case I'll have to go the normal route, which I have been told should be okay in retrospect, so no loss there. Yes, he could be full of $%^£, but its no/low risk.

I'll see what his referral says about this anyway.

 

[CambridgeBrummie]

Agree with "freddie". You definitely need permission form the Highways Department to alter the highway (which includes kerbs and paving). There will be an inspection fee (roughly £180) and usually the work can only be undertaken by approved contractors for which your local council will have a list. They usually require drawings for approval. I've attached our local council's sheet but you will be able to find your own Highways departments requirements by going to the website. Most operate an on-line system these days.

 

[Tayjen]

Agree with "freddie". You definitely need permission form the Highways Department to alter the highway (which includes kerbs and paving). There will be an inspection fee (roughly £180) and usually the work can only be undertaken by approved contractors for which your local council will have a list. They usually require drawings for approval. I've attached our local council's sheet but you will be able to find your own Highways departments requirements by going to the website. Most operate an on-line system these days.

Thanks. Our Country Council have a list of approved contractors although anyone with appropriate insurance and Streetworks authority can do it.

They managed to upsell us on a block-paved drive instead of tarmac for £500 extra, however this is now off contract so I'm going to withhold payment until the kerb has been dropped and I receive my written, verifiable proof with the council that is all legal.

 

[Footsoldier888]

I remember the start of a sitcom where the man of the house would swing his motor over a board on the kerbstone, a most sensible and elegant solution to this beauracratic and expensive problem. Always made me laugh.

 

[Tayjen]

In case anyone is wondering what the end of this saga is, they turned out to be typical cowboys, but its not all bad.

We had withheld monies for the extra works to retain some leverage and we got some more work out of them as a result, though it was a painful process. Along with the drive we had also requested a patio and a paved deck in the corner of the garden. The drive, I believe, is decent piece of work however the patio is pretty shabby. I checked all the prices online at quotationcheck and I think we did alright on price but the pointing quality is really awful and there is some hollowness under some slabs so we got suckered there.

The side gate fencing was also put together awfully, just a screw at an angle between two bits of wood to hold the fencing panel on, most of which fell out when pulled, so I bought some small shelf supports and used those to fix it properly. I had to rehang the gate with the help of a neighbour so it wouldn't scrape on the ground. Cost a couple quid and an hour to fix, so no big deal.

The patio and walkway paving was very messy, with wet cement left smeared on a lot of patio slabs. Before we paid them we demanded they be cleaned, which they refused because 'the rain will clear it off in a couple of weeks'. One slab was damaged with a big flake taken out the edge which they also refused to replace 'that's just the way they come'. They did however reset 3 loose slabs, 1 of which is already loose again and made even more mess with blobs of wet cement all over the place so I scraped them all off when I got home. The pointing is also in a few different shades, which he claimed 'would dry the same colour'. I'm going to have a go at the smeared pointing with a wire brush at the weekend to see what I can do although it may be too late to make it a good job. Some of the corner pointing was missing so they filled that in and layered some earth against the rough raised edge of the patio as its just rough cement underneath. While I was showing him all this he tried to upsell me on getting the whole garden returfed but that was never going to happen.

So yesterday after agreeing the final fixes for another instalment of cash, they left their least capable worker there at 7:30am to do this work and then by 8:00am demanded the full payment in cash by 9am, which of course I declined because the guy had really only just started. They then later called me repeatedly during the day while I was at work. I eventually had a long and painful 'conversation' with the owner where he threaten to smash up the work he had done unless I left work immediately to go to the bank to pay him in cash without inspecting it because he thought a brief whatsapp video showing part of the work being complete was sufficient to 'complete' the work and therefore force payment.

When I told him he would have to wait until I saw it first hand he started screaming at me, accusing me of threatening him with violence (really? lol) and extortion (because I was quoting relevant legal points, like 'payment on completion' and '100% customer satisfaction guaranteed' and the fact he forged the quote by ticking that 14-day cooling waiver box), then resorted to begging like a baby with all the excuses under the sun 'I'm ill, go easy on me, I work outdoors everyday' 'I can't afford to do any more work until you pay me, you're killing my business' 'I'm recording this call'. I thought his head was going to explode He kept saying he was standing outside my house right now, etc etc. I told him he was forcing my hand because I wasn't happy with his work and I wanted a discount for the cleanup I would have to do myself but he was adamant if I was even 1p short he'd tear the whole job out that afternoon. This all because I explained calmly how he hadn't completed several bits of work which had committed to and he barefaced lied back at me that he had never said those things, a contract is a contract time to pay etc. Lies lies and more lies. I'm still waiting for his reference for example, lol.

In the end we agreed full payment him in cash at the end of the day after an inspection just to get rid of him and he turned up with his nephew as muscle backup. He told me he would send a receipt in the post which I refused and got him to sign off on the quote. His SORN-ed truck is still parked in a lay-by up the road full of dirt and he left his sign which will probably end up in the back of it. He now has an accurate review online to warn others. I guess he could just rebrand and reincorporate his company and website now although he works 'word of mouth alone' apparently. I feel slightly done over but I console myself with the fact he doesn't realises how much future business he's cost himself by doing a ****ty job and I think we got more work out him than he originally intended

When I told a builder friend the sotry, he just laughed and said 'well, that's what you get with ******'. My wife reckons he probably thinks I scammed him as much as he scammed us with all these little fixes but I find these conflicts are all just part of the fun really.

Roll on summer, garden parties and bbqs