Evil Microbore.

[Maribel]

Hi,
I'm after a bit of advice before I call the plumber in, just so I know if I'm asking him to do the impossible I'm clueless regarding central heating, mainly because I'm from the south of Spain and central heating is not really a requirement

Anyway.....I've just bought a house in the UK and every single one of the 22 radiators is connected via 8mm copper Microbore through what the plumb centre tell me is a twin entry valve. (Every one who has seen the house says they have never seen this system before ;-( ) The radiators and the boiler are from the ark, although the whole thing seems to work well and the radiators get nicely hot. Some time next year I plan to have the whole thing replaced however in the mean time I'm renovating the bathroom on the ground floor. The radiator is being replaced by a towel rail, so what I'd like to do is take out the Microbore and put in some 15mm pipe (I understand this is the current standard), so that when I do replace the whole system I don't have to rip the bathroom apart again! This would mean connecting some kind of 8-15mm adaptor where the pipes begin the run down the wall (in the ceiling void) and then replacing the old 8mm section with 15mm.

Does this sound sensible to any of you? If so any ideas where I can buy a couple of the adaptors?

Hope this makes sense to somebody here.

Thanks in advance for your kind attention.

Regards

Maria.

 

[ChrisR]

www.bes.ltd.uk Item 6712 Reducing compression
15mm x 10 mm
£0.77


Or there are reducing fittings, of a couple of types, which are soldered

Any GOOD plumbers' merchant will save you a postage charge.

If the pipes are all working, and also buried in the walls, I'd be inclined to leave them there. Microbore done correctly is fine, though it's rather out of fashion. I would rather have microbore than the currently fashionable plastic and push-fit fittings though!
Most important is that the system is kept clean from internal corrosion products - obviously the pipes could block more easily.

If you change your radiators, you will be able to use normal "each end" valves with 8, 10, or 15mm pipe.

I find it hard to believe English isn't your first language?!

 

[Maribel]

Any GOOD plumbers' merchant will save you a postage charge.

If the pipes are all working, and also buried in the walls, I'd be inclined to leave them there. Microbore done correctly is fine, though it's rather out of fashion. I would rather have microbore than the currently fashionable plastic and push-fit fittings though!
Most important is that the system is kept clean from internal corrosion products - obviously the pipes could block more easily.

If you change your radiators, you will be able to use normal "each end" valves with 8, 10, or 15mm pipe.

I find it hard to believe English isn't your first language?!

Hi Chris,
thank you for the response, very helpful. The reason I wanted to get rid of the Microbore is that you can not get fittings for it anymore. I've tried many shops from the "Plumb center" to "B&Q" and nobody has them. Excuse my ignorance but I'm not sure what you mean by "each end" valve. I guess you mean the ones that come in packs with the ugly plastic screw head? The only sizes I can find are 15mm and 22mm. How would I connect this to my 8mm pipes? If you how and where to get such a thing that would be great

As for my English, a very nice complement thank you While I was at university in Spain I taught children English. My job is software engineer, so understanding English is essential for all the technical documents ;-( Also Living in the UK it's not as if I get chance to use any other language Although it's not quite spoken here as I was taught

Thanks once more for the reply, it is very much appreciated.

Kind regards

Maria.

 

[Agile]

As far as I am aware it IS still possible to get connectors for 10 mm and 8 mm although not all high street shops will stock them.

However I would recommend that any modifications to the system be done in 15 mm for the reasons you suggest.

You have not said who is actually going to do the work. Any experienced plumber should be able to do a direct solder job between 15 mm and 8 mm without a fitting if it were necessary.

I agree with Chris that I would prefer a working copper 8 mm system to any plastic piped system.

Tony Glazier

 

[ChrisR]

I mean these - Building Regs now ask for thermostatic valves, I don't know if you'll get the double entry ones with thermostats.

http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/115.asp

Que tenga suerte!

 

[Agile]

Probably not but since its a bathroom she would not be expected to need a TRV.

Remember the towel rails give out virtually no heat to heat the room.

Tony Glazier

 

[ChrisR]

a direct solder job between 15 mm and 8 mm without a fitting

 

[doitall]

a direct solder job between 15 mm and 8 mm without a fitting

Its called a sprinkler system

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

The reason I wanted to get rid of the Microbore is that you can not get fittings for it anymore. I've tried many shops from the "Plumb center" to "B&Q" and nobody has them.

What you cant get hold of these days is twin entry rad valves. AFAIK they have been phased out because they are a nightmare to work with.
8mm and 10mm fittings as already stated are widely available.

All B&Q's and plumb centers stock microbore stuff but the problem is [to quote my favourite joke of the moment] that Brain eating zombies would die of starvation if they were locked in with the staff at a lot of these places. My friend went in B&Q recently for a chainsaw and was presented with a hedge trimmer!!!

I go along with the suggestion that you stick with the microbore and fit 2 way TRV's and new lockshield valves on every rad apart from the one/s in the same room as your room thermostat. Getting a plumber who is up to date with the new energy efficiency qualification to do it would be best as he can advise on this and other finer points related to your system. I believe they can pay for themselves in as little as 18 months if used properly.

Remember the towel rails give out virtually no heat to heat the room.

Whilst the above qoute is true to an extent most modern towel rails DO have more surface area and do emit more heat than their antiquated predecessors. However they are still fairly useless if you cover them with towels. If you insist on a towel rail can I suggest that you stay away from the curved ones like this as I find that the fixings are often poor quality and difficult to work with.

 

[Agile]

Thats why I said it because all the clients cover their towel rails with towels and wonder why they dont get the 400 watts heating their room

A typical bathroom needs about 1000 watts to be nice and warm and most towel rails are about 400 watts without towels and 100 watts or less with.

I never recommend a towel rail on its own.

Tony Glazier

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

I allways talk people out of towel rails, overpriced underoutput, whats the point, fit a radiator and then buy a lenght of chrome/gold/white rail from a shed, buy as many ends as you want and you can have as many rails as you want, best of everything then.

 

[Maribel]

a direct solder job between 15 mm and 8 mm without a fitting

Hola Chris,
you didn't mention you were a Spanish speaker! In this case...
Muchas gracias por tus consejos, siempre es mejor tener en cuenta la opinion de un profesional.

My thanks to all in response to this, I'm a little overwhelmed I have to say.

To slugbabydotcom, Thanks for the reply, but I've looked (not asked for) these items in the DIY "sheds" (seems to be the popular phase), I've asked the local plumbers merchants close to where I work, they laughed. Googled the subject to death and I can not find a single valve to fit my pipes. Perhaps it is because I do not explain myself very well. My English for pluming terminology is not so good. Maybe I'm searching for the wrong items. If you know of anywhere I can get one of these valves, please let me know.

To all those complaining about the towel rails, it's there to warm the towels. The underfloor heating (came with the house) does a good job of warming the room and I don't have to heat the whole house. Also it's a tiny room, a lighter would be enough to warm it up

My thanks to all of you for the replies.

Gracias otra vez, un cordial saludo.

Maria.

 

[stevesey]

Hi

Our hose has 10mm microbore and twin entry valves (apart from the extension where I used normal valves at both ends - but 8mm pipe).

8mm and 10mm fittings and adaptors were readily 5 years ago at plumb centre and local plumbers merchants (I even got some TRVs specifically made for 10/8mm pipe).

Steve

 

[doitall]

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea...+valves&x=13&y=11&n=&pn=1&pd=1&pi=1&cn=1&cd=1

how's that Senorita

 

[Maribel]

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/searchresults.jsp;jsessionid=KMZGULXMTWUUXCJO2C1SJ0Q?_dyncharset=UTF-8&q=rad+valves&x=13&y=11&n=&pn=1&pd=1&pi=1&cn=1&cd=1

how's that Senorita

Buenisimo Caballero!

I have to say I've look here many times and not seen any They say 8-10mm, how does this work?

Can't thank you enough, you are a star

Kind regards

Maria