External LED security lights

The PIR senses heat and therefore a low power LED light would not trigger it?
To be precise the PIR senses changes in the heat image it can see, very slow changes are ignored. Some sensors will react to a bright light source as the sensor material's spectrum extends ( un-intentionally ) beyond the Infra Red but with much lower sensitivity.
 
Maybe I'm confused (again) The PIR senses heat and therefore a low power LED light would not trigger it?
It wouldn't. However, I wasn't talking about the PIR sensor, or of triggering it. I was saying that if the light sensor (photocell or whatever) of your background lighting could 'see' the floodlight, then when the floodlight came on, the other one's light sensor might think it was seeing daylight, and would therefore switch off.

Kind Regards, John
 
Some [PIR] sensors will react to a bright light source as the sensor material's spectrum extends ( un-intentionally ) beyond the Infra Red but with much lower sensitivity.
I suppose that has to be theoretically true, although I've never been aware of it happening in practice.

For a start, the 'lenses' of PIR detectors are usually pretty opaque to visible light. Also, with the possible exception of vehicle headlights (if relevant), reasonably rapidly moving very bright light sources are pretty rare at night.

Kind Regards, John
 
In many PIR sensors there are two "images" which are each formed on a separate heat ( infra red ) sensitive receptor. The receptors produce a current proportional to the amount of IR on the receptor. The lens system slices the image into several strips. Even numbered strips land on one receptor and odd number strips on the other. If a warm object moves across the sensor's field of view then it's image in the sensor alternates from one receptor to the other and the current outputs from the receptors fluctuate alternantly. These fluctuations are what triggers the sensor. A stationary bright light that appears suddnely and only on one set of images slices is likely to create a current fluctuation in that receptor large enough to trigger the sensor
 
A stationary bright light that appears suddnely and only on one set of images slices is likely to create a current fluctuation in that receptor large enough to trigger the sensor
Again, I suppose that's not impossible but (a) the light has to be bright enough to get through the semi-opaque 'lens' and still have enough energy to be sensed by a detector that wasn't designed to be sensitive to visible light in the first place and (b) would have to be a very 'narrow' source to only appear on one set of images. I would imagine that such very bright and very narrow light sources are pretty rare.

If (fairly unusually) one has a PIR detector configured so as not to be inhibited during daylight and sunlight is falling directly onto it, it's not uncommon for it to be activated by clouds passing in front of the sun - but I suspect that is primarily due to the changing IR, rather than visible light, images.

Kind Regards, John
 
Surely the PIR lenses are translucent; not opaque nor semi-opaque.
Semantics/terminology again, I suppose.

One assumes that they are pretty transparent at IR. They are obviously not (totally) opaque at any frequency (and I haven't suggested that they are) but what difference there is between "pretty opaque", "semi-opaque" and "translucent" I'm not too sure.

Of course, if it were possible to make a material that was 'totally opaque' to visible light yet 'totally transparent' to IR, that would probably be the ideal for a PIR lens.

Whatever, "you know what I meant"!

Kind Regards, John
 
Semantics/terminology again, I suppose.
Not really.
Opaque means impenetrable to light.

"Pretty opaque", "semi-opaque" are like "a little bit pregnant" - not possible.
"Translucent" means let's light through but you can't see details through it (frosted) - PIR lenses.


Whatever, "you know what I meant"!
I thought you meant you didn't know what 'opaque' meant.
 
Opaque means impenetrable to light.
If one takes that totally literally, then I suspect that, just as with literal "non-combustible", few materials would actually qualify.

Indeed, if you accept that a laser beam is 'light', then virtually nothing is opaque ("impenetrable to light") - if powerful enough, it can "penetrate" thick sheets of steel etc.!
"Pretty opaque", "semi-opaque" are like "a little bit pregnant" - not possible.
That's only true, if, as is the case with pregnancy, one regards opaque (or non-opaque) as totally dichotomous - which it sounds is your view. However, I think that most people have an understanding of what is meant by phrases such as "semi-opaque".

Kind Regards, John
 
If one takes that totally literally, then I suspect that, just as with literal "non-combustible", few materials would actually qualify.
Indeed, if you accept that a laser beam is 'light', then virtually nothing is opaque ("impenetrable to light") - if powerful enough, it can "penetrate" thick sheets of steel etc.!
You could say the same about fire - but light does not pass through opaque materials until a hole has been made.

That's only true, if, as is the case with pregnancy, one regards opaque (or non-opaque) as totally dichotomous - which it sounds is your view. However, I think that most people have an understanding of what is meant by phrases such as "semi-opaque".
They may determine what you mean by an incorrect term but it is still incorrect.
Do you mean that semi-opaque would be the case when the laser (or fire) has made half a hole?
 
You could say the same about fire - but light does not pass through opaque materials until a hole has been made.'
You said that light cannot penetrate an opaque object, but that clearly is not true when the light is in the form of a powerful laser beam - the light can penetrate an 'opaque' object in the same manner that a drill or nail could.

However, it's a busy time of year and I don't have the time to debate semantics.

Kind Regards, John
 
Also my current lights are just run off a light switch 2 gang dining room switch and outside light switch.
any issues with just linking the wires out behind the switch
It depends how the lights are wired.
You won't be able to unless there is a neutral present.
and adding a 1 gang for dining room
A three gang switch would look better.

or do they require some sort of isolation other than the MCB?
Not regulation-wise but it is advisable for outside lights as they may get wet and affect the rest of your lights.



I was just surprised how much the LED lights were at £50+ compared to when I last bought a Halogen equivalent.
That's climate change profiteering.
 

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