Fire fighter.....

[pete01]

Very extreme cases, not the norm. I have never witnessed anything like this and obviously this happens in lots of work places not just the army. It happens in the Police, fire service, Navy etc.

Exactly

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Exactly

Would anyone want an army, where the personality of the squaddies, was so delicate, that they would cave in if some Russian used shouty words at them?

 

[pete01]

Would anyone want an army, where the personality of the squaddies, was so delicate, that they would cave in if some Russian used shouty words at them?

No it just wouldnt work.

Don't know if you've ever watched SAS:who dares wins, but they really don't mess about on that.

 

[Highway Man]

Would anyone want an army, where the personality of the squaddies, was so delicate, that they would cave in if some Russian used shouty words at them?

Exactly, that is the whole point of it, they churn out disciplined highly skilled soldiers that do exactly what they are told, why would anyone want a set of moaners and complainers. Obviously the extremes of rape is totally unacceptable, but the bullying is done for a reason.

 

[Highway Man]

No it just wouldnt work.

Don't know if you've ever watched SAS:who dares wins, but they really don't mess about on that.

In basic training they dont mess about, you keep your head down and do your best and you get an easier ride. Step out of line or whinge over something and you are going to have a hard time.

 

[morqthana]

This is all part of the breaking your spirit which is all part of the process,

And yet that idea is increasingly rejected by the civil courts, military courts, armed forces heads, and the MoD.

Funny old world, isn't it.

 

[morqthana]

bullying is done for a reason.

And yet that idea is increasingly rejected by the civil courts, military courts, armed forces heads, and the MoD.

Funny old world, isn't it.

 

[Highway Man]

And yet that idea is increasingly rejected by the civil courts, military courts, armed forces heads, and the MoD.

Funny old world, isn't it.

I am sure they won't want to be selling the army to recruits on the point of bullying and aggresive behavior. You have to get through that part in order to achieve the passing out parade, everything changes thereafter.

 

[Highway Man]

And yet that idea is increasingly rejected by the civil courts, military courts, armed forces heads, and the MoD.

Funny old world, isn't it.

It certainly isn't for the likes of yourself as an example of what type of person that the army is looking for.

 

[Odds]

 

[Highway Man]

And yet that idea is increasingly rejected by the civil courts, military courts, armed forces heads, and the MoD.

Funny old world, isn't it.

I am getting confused now, are we talking about the army bullying recruits or bully's in the army from the recruits? The army will not tolerate bullying from the recruits. ie recruit bullying a recruit, that is what I think you are talking about? I am talking about the training staff bullying the recruits, you would class it as bullying in any other environment but it is not bullying when the army staff bully recruits.

 

[morqthana]

I am getting confused now, are we talking about the army bullying recruits or bully's in the army from the recruits? The army will not tolerate bullying from the recruits. ie recruit bullying a recruit, that is what I think you are talking about? I am talking about the training staff bullying the recruits, you would class it as bullying in any other environment but it is not bullying when the army staff bully recruits.

A good question, and one I'd not given any thought to.

These are excerpts from quite a long, but worthwhile read.

It seems that training staff bullying recruits does occur, not as much as recruit on recruit, but that's nobody knows how much because of a culture of non-reporting.


As we have stated earlier the inconclusive nature of the information on bullying makes it difficult to draw definite conclusions. On balance, we consider it likely that more bullying occurs among recruits than by NCOs and junior officers on recruits. Nevertheless, we find it difficult to discount the evidence that members of the chain of command are responsible for some bullying. Reducing bullying by the chain of command requires cultural change and improved support.
.
.
MoD provided us with figures for courts martial and summary procedures taken against instructors and others for offences which could be characterised a involving the breach of duty of care responsibilities. For the Army, between 2001 and 2003, there were 7 courts martial and 89 summary dealings.[486] The court martial cases included ill-treatment, violence and indecent assault by instructors. Within the summary dealing statistics were cases of ill-treatment and verbal abuse. In several of the cases identified as bullying or involving violence, recruits committed the offences. Some cases involved relationships between instructors and female recruits, which are prohibited under Standing Orders.[487] We are concerned that, given the general recognition that much bullying goes unreported, these relatively low figures suggest that there may be a significant number of incidents that should lead to disciplinary action, but have not been reported or investigated.
.
.
We discussed with DOC the procedures recommended for dealing with complaints. We accept the need to protect instructors from malicious or vexatious complaints, but the recommendations set out in DOC (3) provide little comfort for recruits wishing to complain about their NCOs. We are particularly concerned by the recommendation that a complainant can be disciplined if a complaint is not proven. Brigadier Melvin accepted that the was a serious issue that required clarification.[491]

We have concluded that in the past insufficient weight has been given to the issue of bullying, which led to a tolerance of, or at least insufficient action being taken against, bullying. In recent years, attempts have been made to implement what is termed "zero tolerance", but much bullying by both superiors and peers will continue to go unreported unless the culture changes. Accessible and independent channels for reporting are essential. The Armed Forces, and in particular the Army, still do not seem to understand the extent to which their hierarchical structures make it likely that abuses will not be reported.

 

[Highway Man]

I will sum this up with my personal experience of the regime. What I have just read via that link is some sort of HR has written this with little knowledge of the reality of how military training establishments are run. anyone who has gone through basic training will tell you a very different story to that document. I do not class it as bullying as there is good reason for the shouting and the beasting by the staff. You will get called all oif the names under the sun (pretty much on par with some on here) it is totally different and for different reasons that the military do this. A recruit bullying another recruit would be dealt with by the training staff, this would not be a good outcome for the bully. it happens though. The training staff shock you in what they do and their attitude is tow the line or receive the consequences. You wouldn't dare report them as you would really suffer at their hands, it is a very tough time but once you get through it, the training staff become totally different people towards you and become human again. You get to your working unit and things are a world apart from the training camp. Seargents corporals etc are on first name terms with you but you respect their rank and it is instilled into you to do as they say without question. It is discipline like no other and becomes second nature. This all stems from the training camp discipline that you never forget, it is difficult to explain as it is all very unique and understandable only to the military itself. Different regiments have differing levels of discipline after the training camp. Some require similar levels and others not so much. It all depends upon your job role to how they administer this discipline.

 

[Notch7]

Exactly, that is the whole point of it, they churn out disciplined highly skilled soldiers that do exactly what they are told, why would anyone want a set of moaners and complainers. Obviously the extremes of rape is totally unacceptable, but the bullying is done for a reason.

You are clueless

The military requires cohesion and collaboration…..the antithesis of bullying

 

[Notch7]

with little knowledge of the reality of how military training establishments are run.

Describes you well